Vitor was approved to use TRT treatment for Bisping fight.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1518596-drugs-in-mma-is-anderson-silva-being-protected-from-trt-fueled-vitor-belfort



I know i am going to come out sounding like a sore loser about the Bisping loss but seriously some thing needs to be done about this. Either it's 100% okay for all or it's a 100% not okay for all. All i am saying is that the average looking vitor who has been showing signs of slowing down would have probably showed up for the brazil fight not this the big juiced up muscled vitor. Hell let bisping use trt i bet he would develop ko power in no time. Not saying the fight outcome would have been differnt but the playing field would have been more level. Vitor is what only 1-2 years older than Bisping? so why does he get to use it and Bisping cant? For me the Bisping loss to vitor is still a loss but like the article stated a loss with a major asterisk next to it.



Thoughts?

http://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/7/3964858/michael-bisping-ufc-trt-vitor-belfort-mma

another funny side note that just got brought up. All 3 of bispings #1 contender fights were lost while the other fighter was allowed trt treatment. Seems like maybe there might be an arguement in there some where.

i dont like the use of it approved or mot...i think that if a doc approves you to use trt it should be a sign that you cant naturally compete anymore and should retire.....

that being said, about the statment if vitor can why cant bisping.....im sure he could. just needs the "right" doc

I see no problem with anything prescribed by a doctor.

I feel even more strongly about this when it comes to heeling injuries. It pisses me off that you have professional athletes who tear a knee or something and are not allowed to take safe drugs that can literally cut the re-hab time by more than half.

NO TRT champions... no TRT championship matches... If guys want to fight TRT fighters make sure they have informed consent prior to signing the fight contract but no fights for the belt.

Oh and before I forget.... all TRT users should have as their nick name... in this form
Vitor "The Doctor approved Cheater" Belfort

stock wrote:

I see no problem with anything prescribed by a doctor.

I feel even more strongly about this when it comes to heeling injuries. It pisses me off that you have professional athletes who tear a knee or something and are not allowed to take safe drugs that can literally cut the re-hab time by more than half.

I think there's a thin line between therapy and abuse. This keeps popping up more and more and it's hard to imagine fighters and trainers not spreading the word among themselves. It's like getting a medical marijuana card, sooner or later you'll find a doc to prescribe you whatever regimen you need for your "low T". Once you do, you can effectively juice and get away with it. Guys who already have "low T" and are under treatment probably coach the guys who have an appt next Tuesday. It just seems like it's getting out of control.

I have had the same arguement all along, and I haven't seen anyone come up with a solid counterpoint to it.

Fighters get TRT because they are too old to compete with the younger fighters.
If you disagree with that, then answer me this;
Why are there no "young" fighters getting TRT treatment?
The story I keep hearing is that TRT brings you back to a normal level of testosterone, regardless of age. So it will bring a 40 year old back up to normal levels for a 40 year old, a 35 year back up to normal levels for a 35 year old, etc. Fine. That's all well and good in theory, but why is it that there isn't a single 24 year old fighter out there who needs TRT to bring his levels back up to normal 24 year old levels? Surely if this is an affliction that that doesn't discriminate based on age, then we would hear about at least one young fighter needing TRT, right? No. Because it isn't a problem for younger fighters.

So that brings us full circle. It seems that TRT is only needed by older fighters. So I guess you could still apply a weak arguement that they should be allowed to use it because it's only making them "normal" again. But again, I would counter;
Older fighters already have a very real, very recognized advantage called "experience". It comes with age. So now you're telling me that they get to have the experience advantage, but also get to bump their levels back up to "normal" (which my above obsevations already basically prove is complete bullshit)?

Yeah, sorry. I'm not buying that shit for a second. That's an unfair advantage in the most absolutey literal way.

TRT Henderson is a good example. Too old to train as hard as he needs to to be competitive he tears an old knee up, wrecks a card people would have loved to see. Then (possibly due to TRT injections) he lies by omission to his boss and further exacerbates the problem.
(exacerbates... not masturbates!) (Hmmm? yeah he probably can't even spank his monkey while on TRT!)

I am in the same boat as Stock these days. If it's not illegal stfu. Young guys don't need TRT because test doesn't start to deter off until your 30's and that's if you have never used questionable test boosters in your past. These old cats who are getting TRT are for the most part old Japan fighters... where we all know there is no regulations on roids like here in the US.

Triggerman99 wrote:

I have had the same arguement all along, and I haven't seen anyone come up with a solid counterpoint to it.

Fighters get TRT because they are too old to compete with the younger fighters.
If you disagree with that, then answer me this;
Why are there no "young" fighters getting TRT treatment?
The story I keep hearing is that TRT brings you back to a normal level of testosterone, regardless of age. So it will bring a 40 year old back up to normal levels for a 40 year old, a 35 year back up to normal levels for a 35 year old, etc. Fine. That's all well and good in theory, but why is it that there isn't a single 24 year old fighter out there who needs TRT to bring his levels back up to normal 24 year old levels? Surely if this is an affliction that that doesn't discriminate based on age, then we would hear about at least one young fighter needing TRT, right? No. Because it isn't a problem for younger fighters.

So that brings us full circle. It seems that TRT is only needed by older fighters. So I guess you could still apply a weak arguement that they should be allowed to use it because it's only making them "normal" again. But again, I would counter;
Older fighters already have a very real, very recognized advantage called "experience". It comes with age. So now you're telling me that they get to have the experience advantage, but also get to bump their levels back up to "normal" (which my above obsevations already basically prove is complete bullshit)?

Yeah, sorry. I'm not buying that shit for a second. That's an unfair advantage in the most absolutey literal way.

I am fine with all that, except for the whole unfair advantage thing. Impossible to define "fair".
My only issues is that everyone is not allowed to use PEDs.
IMO, if a doctor prescribes it, it should be legal. Period.

The reality is, there are tons of health benefits (including quicker healing/recovery time, better quality of life, and prolonged life) for taking steroids and other PEDs in the proper manner under the direction of a doctor. Just seems stupid to me to try to regulate "fairness". The line is too gray. You could make fairness arguments over thousands of legal shit you can buy at GNC. Not to mention diet, un-needed surguries, lasik, etc....
IMO, if you are putting something into your body legally, the commissions should just back the fuck off.

I call bullshit. If you search long and hard enough you can get a Dr. somewhere who will be willing to prescribe you whatever you want. Happens all the time just a matter of dollars.

Lance "the cheater" Armstrong brings a spotlight on this whole issue. Different techniques that were legal cause they didn't know what this new shit did, blood doping, team cheating finding "Doctors" willing to create and supply all the cheat juice he wanted. Cheaters will always find a Doctor who will get em whatever the fuck they want.

If you want to take the juice, whatever it is, to build muscle, run faster, grow a great head of hair, fuck your old lady longer or keep a flagging movie career going ... fine shoot all the horse cum you want. But if you are in a sport where people can get crippled or killed then NO you don't get to "level the playing field."

If your balls cant make the juice to keep fighting then stop fighting.
Stop em all and ban the cheating motherfuckers

Wow, I'm actually with Krieger. It used to just be called "getting too old to compete". You can give it whatever fancy name you want, the end goal is the same: You want more T in your system. The whole thing is a game now. You know the more and more this goes on, the more I respect BJ PEEN for just being a straight fighter who was never convicted or even accused of anything other than being a baby douche.

To each their own.
Keep in mind, I am against most the guys doing this stuff as they are obtaining the drugs illegally..... ie. Royce Gracie pumping himself with so much juice, he had 80 times the testosterone levels of an average 17 year old when he pissed hot.
I am not saying it is ok for someone to illegally pump themself full of unrealistic and unhealthy levels of testosterone... and no good doctor would think that's ok either.
However, I also don't think it's ok to tell someone they need to call it quits after 10 years because they are too old when there are safe medical ways to help your body perform better.

If there are bad doctors out there, then go after the doctors. These are guys who took an oath and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical school. If they want to give all that up, then go after the doctors and throw the book at them for all I care. Take everything away from them in a civil suit and take away their license to practice medicine.
In other words, don't waste time going after the drug user... go after the guy illegally distributing them.

Not trying to change anyone's mine. People either don't care or think the juice is the devil. Nobody can claim they are the one who is correct on the issue. Just like me trying to convince a dry county conservative that they are idiots to pass laws to not let people buy alcohol on Sundays.

But stock, you're missing the point.
The point isn't whether or not crooked DRs should be prosecuted, the point is; do fighters have an unfair advantage when getting TRT?

You say it's fair to allow older fighters to get this treatment, while I say "You're getting old in a young man's sport. Deal with it and keep fighting as you are, or retire and accept the fact that you aren't 24 anymore".

I don't really see any way that getting a T boost becuase you aren't young enough is any better than taking a steroid because you aren't strong enough.

If there was a drug that made KO-prone fighters impervious to knockouts, would you want them to take it and go out there and take constant damage for 3 rounds, based on the idea that they simply are correcting a medical issue and getting back to a normal competition level?

Rich Franklin on TRT
From ESPN Mixed Martial Arts
October 2012

When Frank was considering using TRT for his fight against Cung Le:

"When that day comes, perhaps I will consider quitting or possibly taking TRT. More than likely, in my mind, I'll choose retirement over the necessity of TRT to continue."
-- Rich Franklin, on likely choosing retirement over TRT

I find it interesting that 4 of Michael Bisping's 5 losses were on TRT.

Would our poor Gecko have to suffer the ignominy of that avatar every-time he loses an avatar bet if TRT Henderson was simply, "Clean Fighter Henderson"?

i agree with trigg.......if your body doesnt perform like it used to then your time IS passing you by or you need to work harder than the young bucks.......taking mma out of the pic for a second.......lets look at baseball players.......if someone crushes the homerun record that say, babe ruth set but it comes out that they were on roids......isnt the record a bit tarnished????? i feel like it is and that the record doesnt hold nearly as much weight as it would have minus the juice.....so whats the diff with mma.....i see none.

Now if these guys need trt no lead a normal life and keep thier body chemestry at the proper place to be happy or function normally on a daily basis thats ok BUT that would be to function like a normal 40 year old....not to make a 40 year old function like a 20 year old.....its not the trt persay that i have a problem with...its the abuse of it to stay young and competing at a level your not able to anymore......if its because of previous abuse, well you made your bed now lie in it and hang em up and become a coach or commentater

Triggerman99 wrote:

But stock, you're missing the point.
The point isn't whether or not crooked DRs should be prosecuted, the point is; do fighters have an unfair advantage when getting TRT?

You say it's fair to allow older fighters to get this treatment, while I say "You're getting old in a young man's sport. Deal with it and keep fighting as you are, or retire and accept the fact that you aren't 24 anymore".

I don't really see any way that getting a T boost becuase you aren't young enough is any better than taking a steroid because you aren't strong enough.

If there was a drug that made KO-prone fighters impervious to knockouts, would you want them to take it and go out there and take constant damage for 3 rounds, based on the idea that they simply are correcting a medical issue and getting back to a normal competition level?

My point is that there are thousands of ways to get an advantage in a fight. Some people don't have the money to train or have access to a good gym. Some guys can't afford to pump themselves full of (non banned) GNC products. Some guys live/train at higher altitudes. Some guys can afford best organic fresh vegetables and expensive lean proteins for all their meals. Some guys get pins/screws in their knees after a bad injury. In other sports (like baseball) players getting lasik is all too common. Pitchers are getting Tommy John surgery when they don't even have an injury since it makes the tendon in their arm stronger.
All I am saying is that this constant effort to try to test everything all the time and keep ahead of science is ruining the sport. All I am saying is leave it up to the doctors. If a guy is taking non over the counter drugs not under advice from a doctor, they are breaking the law and should be penalized.
If this were a cut and dry issue, I'd have no problem. But for someone to say that one thing is "fair" and another thing is "unfair" is nothing buy arbitrary opinion. If your goal in life is to make everything 100% fair all the time, you aren't going to die a very happy person.

side note: how about new sport....mmj Mixed martial juicers.....all the roid heads or trt users can get it on there!......then we can inlist the old timers night and have a card of all the old legands (no age limit, maybe even a special apperance by Jimmi Super Fly Snuka) ohhhh and tag team, YES tag team!

so what do yall think?,?, does trt help validate our fav sport or make it a bit of a circus?

fair no, consistant yes! ie mmj

totally off topic but does estrogen replacement therapy give an advantage to male ballet dancers????.....only kidding

stock wrote:

Triggerman99 wrote:

But stock, you're missing the point.
The point isn't whether or not crooked DRs should be prosecuted, the point is; do fighters have an unfair advantage when getting TRT?

You say it's fair to allow older fighters to get this treatment, while I say "You're getting old in a young man's sport. Deal with it and keep fighting as you are, or retire and accept the fact that you aren't 24 anymore".

I don't really see any way that getting a T boost becuase you aren't young enough is any better than taking a steroid because you aren't strong enough.

If there was a drug that made KO-prone fighters impervious to knockouts, would you want them to take it and go out there and take constant damage for 3 rounds, based on the idea that they simply are correcting a medical issue and getting back to a normal competition level?

My point is that there are thousands of ways to get an advantage in a fight. Some people don't have the money to train or have access to a good gym. Some guys can't afford to pump themselves full of (non banned) GNC products. Some guys live/train at higher altitudes. Some guys can afford best organic fresh vegetables and expensive lean proteins for all their meals. Some guys get pins/screws in their knees after a bad injury. In other sports (like baseball) players getting lasik is all too common. Pitchers are getting Tommy John surgery when they don't even have an injury since it makes the tendon in their arm stronger.
All I am saying is that this constant effort to try to test everything all the time and keep ahead of science is ruining the sport. All I am saying is leave it up to the doctors. If a guy is taking non over the counter drugs not under advice from a doctor, they are breaking the law and should be penalized.
If this were a cut and dry issue, I'd have no problem. But for someone to say that one thing is "fair" and another thing is "unfair" is nothing buy arbitrary opinion. If your goal in life is to make everything 100% fair all the time, you aren't going to die a very happy person.

But again; I'm not asking you if it is crrently legal. Obviously it is. And I'm not asking you if there are other ways to ge an advantage. Obviously there are. And I'm not asking you if taking illegal drugs should be cause for penalty. Obviously it should.

Clearly my goal is not to change anything about the legal use of TRT in MMA by arguing that it isn't "fair" on a forum. I'm not dellusional. But we're talking about opinion here. I'm asking you if you agree that it shouldn't be legal for the reasons I have laid out above (among other reasons).

Krieger wrote:

I find it interesting that 4 of Michael Bisping's 5 losses were on TRT.

Would our poor Gecko have to suffer the ignominy of that avatar every-time he loses an avatar bet if TRT Henderson was simply, "Clean Fighter Henderson"?

Makes me wonder, at the very least bisping should have had a title shot by this point. we saw how close Bisping/ Sonnen was. imagine if you took the trt treatment out of the mix this fight could have been argueably a lot more one sided.