Why Anderson Silva Isn't "All That" In My Heart

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A look at why some fans don't get that excited about Anderson Silva.


Aug 31, 2011 - Anderson Silva isn't my favorite MMA fighter.

There, I said it.

Sure he's the greatest, maybe ever. I certainly thrilled to his incredible performance against Yushin Okami at UFC 134. Intellectually I'm in awe of his abilities, creativity, knowledge and skill. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him as a person and a professional. He can't be said to have ever ducked a challenge. But, as Elvis Presley once said, he just don't move me.

Let's not make this complicated, here are three big reasons that Anderson Silva leaves me cold:

Not Just No Great Rivals, Only Even One Good Rival
Despite having four career losses, Silva just hasn't found an opponent worthy of him. None of the guys (Luiz Azerado, Daiju Takase, Ryo Chonan, Yushin Okami) who beat him own wins over him are at all notable and there's zero reason to believe any of them would even challenge him in a rematch. He beat Rich Franklin, the guy he took the title from, twice and utterly. Despite having had tough back-and-forth fights with two of the most hate-able men in MMA history -- Lee Murray and Chael Sonnen -- the failings of those two jokers have prevented a rematch. There's still hope for Sonnen to get it together and earn a rematch. Cross your fingers.

Sinks to the Level of His Opposition
Even worse than his sin of having been a truly great fighter in a very thin division is Silva's tendency to lower himself when fighting mediocre opposition. When Silva isn't challenged by his opponent -- often due to a bad style clash that renders pure grapplers with limited wrestling helpless against Anderson -- he tends to goof off and fight lousy. He did it against Demian Maia and Thales Leites and could be accused of it against Patrick Cote. To the extent that those fights became total mockeries of the sport, the fans, his opponent and his talents, it's hard for me to emotionally re-engage with Silva as a fan.

No Career Narrative, No Drama
It doesn't help that Silva's career arced through four different promotions on four different continents and yet the story as a whole doesn't add up to anything. In Brazil he was a rising, but limited, talent who started slow and improved steadily. In Japan he was an instant success who became an infamous bust in the big leagues. In England he matured into his full abilities and dominated some tough competition. In the U.S. he was an instant force who was rushed into a title shot because the division was a vacuum. It's easy to forget how dreadfully thin the UFC's 185lb division was when Silva arrived in 2006. There's a reason he got a title shot after one UFC win: there was no one else even remotely credible as a challenger to Rich Franklin. Once he had the belt he just continued to maul the better challengers and coast against the weaker ones. The big come-from-behind win over Chael Sonnen being the one exception.
I remain hopeful though.

Source


As you all may have or have not noticed, Im not the biggest AndyFan my self. But I do have him ranked 2 P4P on my personal list. But lately I've been questioning whether thats a realistic placement among the P4P kings. I never really gave it any thought, he has tons of wins and the most title defenses in the UFC. P4P King right? Then I read this and IDK any more... Nate Wilcox of MMA Nation and SB Nation's BloodyElbow.com holds some good points... What do you guys think, Is Anderson the P4P King?

First off, there's numerous- seemingly willful- ommissions in there, as well as complete contradictions
(example: "I have nothing but the utmost respect for him as a person and a professional"

".....to the extent that those fights became total mockeries of the sport, the fans, his opponent and his talents,")which makes me question the sincerity of the author's opening statement, as well as his motives.
I know someone's gonna say "but it's hard to argue the points he makes!"
No, it isn't. Really.
But I don't need to, because the fact that critics feel the need to write articles in attempt to explain why they feel Silva is not the best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet actually proves that he is the best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.....more so than anything point I can make.

I dunno man, I think you're mixing two different things: P4P and emotional connection. The article seems to be saying that aside from his dominance in the ring, there isn't much about Silva to get excited about. He breezes through guys, he's never had a great rivalry, and he coasts when he fights a guy that isn't top tier. Combine that with the fact that his English is shaky and you don't really have someone who endears himself to the fans. The reason guys like Couture, Liddell, Rampage, etc are so popular is because of their skill AND larger than life personality. Silva has the skill, but no personality.

Now that gets us to your P4P argument. Name one champion that has made so many good fighters look silly. He doesn't beat guys, he embarrasses them. Check out just his UFC record:

Leben - never been KO'd, iron chin, etc. KO'd within a minute
Franklin - Dominant champ, strong, athletic guy. Silva manhandled him in the clinch and fucked up his face. Twice
Lutter - TUF winner, great BJJ. Sure he didn't make weight but he's nasty on the ground. Silva survived being mounted and finished him in the 2nd
Marquardt - Never had a chance
Hendo - P4P great, fought world class guys all over the world. The fact that so many people were amazed that Hendo got top position for a round says it all
Irvin - Lol
Cote, Leites - Inspired Dancin' Silva. These fights were pretty big critiques for Silva, and rightly so, but he was never in any danger despite acting like a jackass
Forrest - Former champ, huge LHW, durable as fuck. Silva toyed with him a bit then knocked him out with a jab
Maia - Elite BJJ, very dangerous on the ground. Another disgusting Dancin' Silva fight, one where he was pressured a bit but still won despite not taking it seriously
Sonnen - Silva came within 2 minutes of losing his title but smoothly hooked up a triangle for the win. Calm as a bomb the whole fight
Belfort - Fastest hands in the west, elite striker. Segal-kicked in the grill. Over
Okami - Apparently in the 2nd Silva realized that he had somewhere to be and ended the fight when he felt like.

Out of all those guys, Sonnen was the only one that was even in the fight. With everyone else, Silva showed how much better he is. I had GSP at the top of my P4P for a long time but you can't ignore the sheer number of quality fighters Andy Silver has completely destroyed.

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I dunno man, I think you're mixing two different things: P4P and emotional connection. The article seems to be saying that aside from his dominance in the ring, there isn't much about Silva to get excited about. He breezes through guys, he's never had a great rivalry, and he coasts when he fights a guy that isn't top tier. Combine that with the fact that his English is shaky and you don't really have someone who endears himself to the fans. The reason guys like Couture, Liddell, Rampage, etc are so popular is because of their skill AND larger than life personality. Silva has the skill, but no personality.

I would agree with you, and the author seems to be trying to disguise his intentions in the way you are describing, except for two things:

1). "In the U.S. he was an instant force who was rushed into a title shot because the division was a vacuum. It's easy to forget how dreadfully thin the UFC's 185lb division was when Silva arrived in 2006. There's a reason he got a title shot after one UFC win: there was no one else even remotely credible as a challenger to Rich Franklin. Once he had the belt he just continued to maul the better challengers and coast against the weaker ones. The big come-from-behind win over Chael Sonnen being the one exception."

If' that's not written with the intention of downplaying Silva's accomplishments- and by association, downplaying his billing as top P4P- then I don't know what is.

2). Why is this thread accompanied by a poll of whether or not Silva is justified as the the top P4P?
Of course, that's more something I should be asking the guy who started the thread.
~cough~ cough~ Chrom~ cough

Right based on sheer numbers, which is why I have him up there. But then look at the list you just put up there out of all of them who is really outstanding? Hendo... Franklin maybe.... the rest are good but, I just think he possibly has gotten the pick of the litter by being able to cut to 185 rather then fighting top 205ers. His style meshes better with what there is to offer in the 185 division, is what Im trying to say I guess. When compared to 205 which is wrestler heavy... So there comes in that P4P question banging in the back of my head...

Edit: for the record I voted yes up top

His victims list is easily comparable to St. Pierre's, especially given the decisiveness of his last 3 wins. GSP may have beaten the crap out of Penn and Hughes, but the rest of his list is similar to Silva's.

GSP was my top until the last 2 Silva wins. The guy is scary-good, he's a monster. He baits guys into fighting exactly the way he wants them to and then ends them. You can't hold him fighting at 185 against him, he's been there for the vast majority of his career. You could make the same argument about GSP fighting at 170 instead of 185 actually.

I just think that maybe alot of the other top 10 P4Pers have faced a more varied line up of styles... Im working on a list right now... and I may end up looking like a complete ass hat by the end, but Im still gonna post it... if for nothing but to prove to my self that Silva indeed does need to be my #1.

So just so we're clear;

We are now talking about Silva's place at the top of the P4P rankings, and not about his likeabilty, right?

Just kind of seems like this has taken a drastic turn when compared to the article at the top.

Yeah, I just think I need to convince my self that he needs to be up there, since Im too stuborn to listen to any one else telling me....

And damn it, I made the damn thread I will vear when ever then shit I want!

I suppose it also depends on what the definition of P4P really is... which is a whole other deal... but lets take a look at some of the others on the P4P list and the opposition they have faced to get there. Keep in mind this might end up changing my whole mind on the matter and prove me to be a complete dipshit.... so pay attention.

Pound-4-Pound
1. Anderson Silva - Refer to BKN's post

2. Georges St. Pierre (Jake Shields Amazing AJJ No Stand Up, KOS amazing wrestler good hands, Hardy Good Hands, Alves Good Stand Up, B.J. Amazing BJJ Fast Hands Great All Around Fighter, Fitch Limited Stand up Good Wrestler, Serra Heavy Hands Great BJJ, Hughes Great Wrestling SubPar Stand up, Sean Sherk Good Hands Great Wrestling, Frank Trig Decent All around)

3. Jose Aldo (Hominick Great Hands Ok ground game, Gamburyn heavy Hands OK Judo, Faber Amazing all around fighter, Brown Decent Wrestling Heavy Hands)

4. Nick Diaz (Daley Great Hands, Santos Good Stand up Ok BJJ, Noons Best hands in the Biz, Sakurai eh Legend but not much to offer when they met, Zaromski Good Stand up, )

5. Jon Jones (Shogun One of the best all round fighters in the world, Bader Heavy Hands Great Wrestling, The Janitor KO Power with a Decent Ground Game, Hamill limited Stand up Great Wrestling)

6. Gilbert Melendez (Kawajiri Amazing All around, Aoki Fuckin Beast on the Ground Decent Stand Up, Thomson Good Every Where)

7. Cain Velasquez (Lesnar Limited Stand up/W KO Power Great Wrestling, Big Nog Good Stand Up Amazing BJJ, Rothwell Decent All around, Kongo SubPar Wrestling Great Stand Up)




So..... yeah now I gotta sit back and absorb this....

By definition the best Pound for Pound fighter is compared to other fighters in different weight classes. This is the best definition for a subjective comparison between fighters. Because this exercise is based on "what ifs" and speculation it is easy to tear apart a point of view especially if you add an emotional component.

Things become a lot easier when you have a fighter like Anderson.

1) Defended his title 9 times.
2) 15 fight winning streak against high quality opponents
3) Cleaned out his division and fighters are scared to fight him.
4) Finishes most of his fights in devastating fashion
5) Is building a legend based on the facts of his fights
6) Most people polled believe he IS the P4P best fighter in the world.

Some people say the Paper Emperor is best P4P fighter in the world.... (not so many anymore) but just compare the two fighters records and the fact that if Anderson and the Paper Emperor fought at a catch weight.... well what do you think would happen?

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So..... yeah now I gotta sit back and absorb this....

Looks to me like you got some serious thinking to do, my friend!



But seriously, don't make me debate you again on Silva's place at the top. After everytime we debate over this, I feel about 10 years older and can't think straight for like 3 days.

I have came to the conclusion that i have only one leg to stand on and that is Silva hasn't faced top wrestling competition, aside from Chael that is... and we all saw how that went... then ended... So I guess Im an ass hat.... Silva is the P4P KING this is the saddest moment of enlightenment I've ever had

and one other thing took from this study, Melendez is under ranked BADLY!!!

Yeah he didn't do so well against Henderson!

Oh yeah he choked Mr American Wrestling Poster Boy into tapping like a little bitch.... (I mean that in the absolutely most respectful manner I can muster.)

heh.....

Whew!

OK, I'm gonna go get drunk now, knowing that I don't need to put on the battle gear!

I say no because I truly believe that GSP would beat Anderson if he makes that jump. Until it happens and I am proven wrong I just see GSP being a stylistic nightmare for Anderson. The debate for each is so close already, so that is the deciding factor for me.

......and then when Silva beats him, everyone will say it's because he is naturally larger than GSP. So it will be just another win for Silva that proves nothing to his doubters.

Like alot of others i had gsp at #1 but silvas finishes and his winning streaks. I have to agree that silva is #1. I do want to see chael and silva again cause i dont think it will be even close this time. I have silva tapping him out no later then the 3rd round.

Triggerman99 wrote:

......and then when Silva beats him, everyone will say it's because he is naturally larger than GSP. So it will be just another win for Silva that proves nothing to his doubters.

I don't doubt Anderson's ability or the fact that he is possibly the best fighter in the world right now. What I do doubt is his ability to handle GSP's style. To me there is a case to put both of them at the top. The number one difference between them is that Anderson is more vulnerable against a wrestler than GSP is against anyone one thing. You most likely are not going to out wrestle GSP. You most likely aren't going to grind him out. You most likely aren't going to submit him. You most likely aren't going to stand and consistently beat him standing up. (Mostly because he will take you down at will if he fills he is not doing well on his feet.) On the other hand you probably won't submit or beat Silva on his feet, but you can out wrestle him and you can grind him out. Those are things that GSP excel at. Which is why I have to give him the edge. Let's not forget that if and when GSP takes this fight he will have buffed up to an extent that the size difference is much less of a factor. I don't think he will come in over 210 like Silva probably does. But he would probably come in at 205-210 by that point.

Thats a great point, to put it simply I guess you could say Silva has an Achilles heel, GSP doesn't. Interesting.....

But like I said, even if GSP beefs up, people are still gonna say he is "naturally" smaller than Silva, so it doesn't prove anything if Silva beats him.

On that same note, if GSP has to gain mass to fight Silva, he may not be so dominant in the wrestling as he has been against WW fighters. As you said, Silva will probably come in on the plus side of 200 lbs. GSP won't be able to manhandle him so easily, and may be forced to stand with Silva. As good as people like to say GSP's striking is, it is light years behind Silva's striking, and it would not end well for GSP should he have trouble taking down the bigger man.

Chrom wrote:

Thats a great point, to put it simply I guess you could say Silva has an Achilles heel, GSP doesn't. Interesting.....

GSP does have an Achilles heal; it's his heart.
We saw it betray him in the Serra fight, and we nearly saw it betray him in the Sheilds fight after he got the eye injury. he was on the verge of panic when Yoda had to bring him back to Earth.

If Silva had any issue with his heart or ability to stay calm under pressure, he wouldn't be the champion right now. That's for sure.

You could say that Silva showed a chink in his armor by getting outwrestled by Sonnen, but you could say GSP showed a chink in his armor my panicking when the going gets tough.

Also a great point trigger. GSP does seem to crumble in the corner at times...

I don't know if I would classify it as panic. Realistically he severely tore his abductor longus a muscle group that is high up on the inside of his groin and he was rightfully concerned how this would effect his performance. Rightly so.

I don't know if "crumble" fits either.

Upsized GSP vs a Downsized Anderson would be a good fight. And ... it would make one hell of a lot of money. Realistically it would be more difficult for GSP to go up a weight-class in a healthy and effective fighting manner vs Anderson coming down a weight-class.