Dan Hardy on Matt Hughes; "Bloodthirsty kill freak"

stock wrote:

Is it ok to hunt for food if you have a ton of fun and experience a rush in doing so?

OK, this arguement has been repeated over and over again, and I've tried to respond respectfully, but it doesn't seem to be getting through. I'll try to put it a little more plainly. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but I'm running out of ways to sugarcoat this;

Nobody should have fun killing things. It should not be enjoyable to shoot and kill an animal. If it is fun for you and you enjoy it, I, in all seriousness, believe that is a form of mental illness. I am worried about people who feel satisfied after killing.
I'm sorry, but it's fucked up, IMO.

Heh ... having said all this ..... Fedor Hunting!..... now that would be a sport for fun!

Now that I really step back and think about it, I think I understand the line of seperation in our feelings on this subject. When you remove the confusion and misdirection about whether it's necessary or what the reasons are for doing it, you are left with one thing; the end result. And the end result is a dead animal. One way or the other, an animal has been killed, regardless of which side of the debate you stand on.

That's the basis of how you feel about this IMO;
How important (or unimportant) is an animal's life to you?

I think some of you guys look at a wild animal as not much more than a meat-bag with legs, so it doesn't really bother you in the slightest to kill it. When I look at it that way, I guess I can understand a little bit better why you don't even bat an eye when you drop it with a rifle and gut it with a smile on your face.

But I personally look at an animal and see something that thinks, feels, and has emotions that at least somewhat resemble those of a human being. That is why I can't view hunting in the same light as you do.

Maybe I'm wrong about animals, but if you think of it the same way I do, you would probably see where I'm coming from when I say it shouldn't be a fun thing to do. Just the same, if I felt about them the same way you do, I probably wouldn't be so opposed to hunting for sport.

Trigger, are you a vegan?

Krieger wrote:

DEP wrote:

Can't you have fun while keeping animal population in check? Someone has to do it, and hunters enjoy the thrill of the hunt (which does exist and IMO comes from the same place that other instincts do), so I don't see the problem. There are advantages to being at the top of the food chain. Hunters do it more for the thrill of the hunt aspect, not because they're being called upon by county officials to fill the deer quota. So what? Hunters scratch the itch, conservationists don't have to deal with overpopulation. If Hardy doesn't want to experience that thrill then he doesn't have to, and I don't expect Hughes to give a fat poop about it one way or the other.

Heh really? Naw.... none of these taards are hunting to help control over populations of animals.... they are doing it cause they like killing things and then leaving their bodies there to rot while they go swill JD and compare dick sizes. Most of these turds dont "hunt" they wait for some dumb unsuspecting woodland creature to come in range of their cannons and then blast the life out of them ... for no other reason than their own sick perversion ... if these guys want a real thrill hunting go after a griz with a bow and arrow.... otherwise just admit that yer a pusssy and go hunt each other.

Krieger, is this you?

Chrom wrote:

Trigger, are you a vegan?

That was my next question.

Geeze DEP I thought I made my position clear. I fully support real hunting. In our family my son is the hunter. He is ethical, safe and respects his prey. He feeds his family with what he kills, he kills it, skins it, dresses it, and does all his own butchering.

I have enjoyed the bounty of his skill as a hunter and have enjoyed Elk, moose, deer, goose, ducks and fish all harvested by him. I have helped in the butchering and sausage making process. After a couple of bad kills hunting with my dad I can't bring myself to take part in the killing anymore so I don't go out anymore. My oldest girl wants to go hunting with her bro and I fully support this.

What I do object to, as I believe Trigg does, is the pointless slaughter of innocent animals for the buzz some dickless little boy gets in his pants from smashing car windows or killing neighborhood cats or calling himself a hunter by going out into the woods and killing for the sheer thrill of it.

So no I'm not a tree hugger crying in the woods but neither am I a testosterone shy, little dicked blood thirsty killbot slaughtering animals for the fun of it..... like Hughes.

Yup!!!

I'm not a tree-hugging, protest-loving, tye-dye-wearing hippy who thinks I'm changing the world by rallying my dirtbag dreadlocked friends to the capital and shouting my ridiculous opinions through a megaphone.
I'm just a guy who gets annoyed by people who choose to compensate their shortcomings by killing shit for kicks and then bragging about it like they did something manly.

What I also am is an animal lover. I'm that guy who will feed a starving, stray cat, feel genuinely bad when I see a dead squirrel in the road, and stop and watch a family of deer in the woods and enjoy it without feeling the need to open fire on them.

You want to talk about satisfaction or enjoyment? Those things are satisfying and enjoyable to me.

And just like Krieger, I have hunted. And I absolutely did not enjoy it in the slightest. In fact, the results of those times are some of the most hauntingly awful memories I have.

Sorry, but I don't feel less manly because of that.

Krieger wrote:

Geeze DEP I thought I made my position clear. I fully support real hunting. In our family my son is the hunter. He is ethical, safe and respects his prey. He feeds his family with what he kills, he kills it, skins it, dresses it, and does all his own butchering.

I have enjoyed the bounty of his skill as a hunter and have enjoyed Elk, moose, deer, goose, ducks and fish all harvested by him. I have helped in the butchering and sausage making process. After a couple of bad kills hunting with my dad I can't bring myself to take part in the killing anymore so I don't go out anymore. My oldest girl wants to go hunting with her bro and I fully support this.

What I do object to, as I believe Trigg does, is the pointless slaughter of innocent animals for the buzz some dickless little boy gets in his pants from smashing car windows or killing neighborhood cats or calling himself a hunter by going out into the woods and killing for the sheer thrill of it.

So no I'm not a tree hugger crying in the woods but neither am I a testosterone shy, little dicked blood thirsty killbot slaughtering animals for the fun of it..... like Hughes.

Forgive me, it was kinda hard to tell where you were going with that and it seemed pretty one sided. Honestly I'm in the same boat as you two, I'm not really into killing stuff for the hell of it. I don't think the vast majority of hunters are either. Sadly, that's the stereotype. Some shirtless backwoods hilljack in a pickup with no doors on it driving around shooting anything that moved with his grandpa's lever actoin 30-30 went and fucked it up for everybody.

This conversation is spiraling, I hunt because I enjoy every aspect of it. Do I rip my shirt off and beat my chest when I make a kill? No, although that is how hunters are being painted in this thread. Krieger's position on this subject is all over the place. Your son hunts because he enjoys it. If he didn't enjoy killing the animal then he would just buy the meat you enjoy so much. God knows it isn't hard to get your hands on some of the same meat that he hunts for. It takes a lot less time and effort to go pick up some good deer meat. You both had a bad experience while hunting and it scarred you. That is not a reason to bash people for enjoying what you do not.

I will always "bash" small dicked fucks who kill for the "fun" of it... leaving dead bodies in the wilderness to rot. Nope I'm not all over the place... Most real hunters hate the little fuks DEP describes in his last post.... I hate em too... simple... clear

Whoa,
To be fair, the bashing has gone a little bit both ways, wouldn't you say?

I think Krieger is kind of intentionally going to the extreme to prove our point, but the point is the same nonetheless;
The idea that killing is fun was brought to the discussion by the pro-hunting people in this thread, not the anti-hunting people. All we're doing is trying to get a genuine answer to why you would kill an animal for fun, and I honestly haven't seen one. I have seen a lot of misdirection about different reasons why hunting is needed, but I still have not seen anyone give me an outright reason why they like the killing portion of the experience.
I think I have been more than fair by offering my own theory, but if we're talking about bashing, the only response I saw was calling me a vegan and calling Krieger a tree-hugger.

Look, I know this is a sensitive subject, and if it's geting out of hand, it might be best to end it. I don't think any less of you guys for hunting for sport. If you enjoy it, fine. Just like I hope you don't think any less of me for being against it. Like DEP said; maybe some extreme dipshits have ruined it for the intelligent folks.
All I want is to get some genuine insight into the mind of a person who likes to kill animals for fun. Because (obviously), I just don't get it. I understand the necessity part of it, but I honestly don't understand the "fun" part of it. That's what I'm searching for.

Like I said when I started this thread; It should spark some good debate. I don't want any more than that.

ITS COMING RIGHT FOR US!

Krieger wrote:

I will always "bash" small dicked fucks who kill for the "fun" of it... leaving dead bodies in the wilderness to rot. Nope I'm not all over the place... Most real hunters hate the little fuks DEP describes in his last post.... I hate em too... simple... clear

Who does this? That's just wastefull, imo.
Although, used to hunt cayottes at my uncles house when I was a kid... and would just let them lie. My uncle had a farm at they had a big problem with them killing off their chickens and other small livestock. We'd also do the same for other animals we'd find near the house that we did not want around (ie.. skunks).
I don't see any problem with that.

I've gone hunting a ton growing up. But it was never just to kill an animal and leave it there to rot (other than the nuisance animals). I used to love killing small game (ie.. rabits) and dressing them and cooking them up fresh. Same for deer, geese, and ducks. You just cannot find wild game in the stores. And farmed animals just do not taste the same as wild game. It is really rewarding, imo, to eat something you hunted and killed yourself and went through the whole process of dressing and butchering and cooking. Just like fishing. No fish tastes better than some fresh fish you caught yourself and fried up fresh no matter how expensive the restaurant is you can go to.

Trigger, the main part that bothers me about what you said earlier is that you seem completely ok with grocers meat... You don't understand why people hunt for food, especially when they could just make a stop at Rainbow Foods and purchase some meat?
How about these reasons:
No Pink Slime (ammonia gassed asshole meat and unusable scraps boiled and centrifuged)
No inhumane slaughter
No piss poor living conditions prior to slaughter
No insane pricing for sub-par cuts
No relying on FDA approval of "good meat"
Game/wild meat is far healthier for you on many levels
The list really goes on and on for this

For the record, I don't even hunt... But I would be a fool to make a giant ass generalized judgement on those who do.
But I do want to try to help you understand. Take a carpenter for instance. Yes, I know killing animals isn't involved in carpentry, but the same principle can be applied. A carpenter would scoff at a prefab home. But he would enjoy and take pride in his own handy work when complete. You know that feeling you get when you accomplish something and can actually see/eat and enjoy your hard work. It's not much different. Most hunters have been brought up doing it for years, it builds camaraderie and tightens family bonds in most cases.

One should be able to hunt and enjoy his own bounty with out being thought of as a "Bloodthirsty Kill Freak" is all I am saying. Sure there are a few bad ones (who maybe bloodthirsty) in the pack, but that can be said about any group of people. Should we hate all white folks for the KKK? No, it just wouldn't make sense.
IDK if that helps at all.... but thats how I see it at least....

Guys, Trig said he understands when people hunt and eat what they kill. His issue is when people hunt for sport and do nothing with the carcass. That's where he is arguing...

Triggerman99 wrote:

You don't need to hunt for food. Nobody does in a civilized society. So why are doing it?

I was addressing this.

Triggerman99 wrote:

So I figured this would get some debate going.....

Success!

Trigg I just asked if you were a vegan. Honest question. That's the position a lot of vegans take. I do appreciate how you make an attempt to understand the mindset of a person who hunts though. Krieger seems to have his mind made up, however, so the first thing I thought of was hippie tree girl.

On the other hand ... have you ever done a vegan tree huggin hippie girl.... they do tend to uh smell like nature..... perhaps enough to bring tears to your eyes.

OK, first off; Thanks to BKN for coming to my defense.
Second, Chrom; I hate to say it, but I gotta call you out for taking my comment out of context.

I said you don't "need" to hunt for food, which is true. It's not necessary. I also said if you choose to hunt for food and eat it, I have no problem with it. So without trying to sound like a dick, your latest arguement carries no merit against my stance.

I'm still looking for why pepole enjoy killing animals, because from what I've gathered so far, it's a genuinely real thought process. Due to the respect I have for you guys, I have to believe that there is a logical reason that doesn't involve deep-seeded malice.

As I mentioned earlier, it has a lot to do with how you are raised. If your father isn't taking you out to the thick, or my uncle in my case, during your upbringing and explaining to you the reasoning then you aren't going to understand it. To give you some insight on the mindset I can tell you this. As I was being taught how to hunt my Uncle would always tell me not to kill a Doe if I saw a Fawn with her. Now to some this might seem like a kind gesture towards the Fawns feelings, and as a child I thought the same thing. Later I found out it had nothing to do with that, at least in his mind. He wanted to give that Fawn the best chance to make it, so that it could grow and possibly be another kill down the line. There is no malice involved and any deep seeded mental issues, that you may be looking for, probably isn't there. Around here it is simply life as usual. My parents grew up poor, just like many others around here, their parents took them hunting for obvious reasons. As my parents grew up and had kids they remembered the great memories from their childhood and wanted to share those experiences with us. Now we hunt and I will be taking my kids to hunt when they are a little older as well. If anything, that is your deep seeded mystery.

Trigger, I wasn't taking it out of context. From what I have gathered you find it "ok" to hunt for food... as long as you don't enjoy yourself... that is a very skewed view IMO.
You have said you don't understand the enjoyment of hunting. So I listed multiple reasons aside from the thrill of the hunt.

Chrom,
It's Ok to hunt if you have a good reason. It's not OK to hunt if you don't. That's my view. If you hunt for enjoyment and enjoyment alone, I disagree with it.

Zach,
It sounds like what you are saying is that you hunt because it's more or less a tradition in your family and area, and that it's just part of your way of life. I guess I can't really argue with that. Sometimes when something is traditional or part of a lifestyle, that's all the reason you need to do it I suppose.

Kind of like inner-city kids growing up to be gang-bangers who shoot each other for no good reason, right? it's part of their lifestyle. Or like human sacrifice. It's just traditional!

Sorry! Couldn't help myself. I'm kidding, obviously. I do more or less get what you're saying. I don't really agree with it, but I understand the reasoning.

Krieger wrote:

On the other hand ... have you ever done a vegan tree huggin hippie girl.... they do tend to uh smell like nature..... perhaps enough to bring tears to your eyes.

I needed GPS and a Sherpa to get through the muff. No joke.