Was Carlos Condit's Run from Nick Diaz Bad for the Sport?

"I think I'm done with this MMA," Diaz said. "I don't need this s***."

Condit took home the UFC's interim welterweight title on his bicycle. Scratch that. Condit won a track meet last night. He ran from Diaz for five rounds, sometimes literally, with arms pumping as he sprinted across the cage to reset and begin the race again.

Other times, it was metaphorically, circling, always circling, never still as he potshotted Diaz with leg kicks and avoided his incessant pressure.

Make no mistake—Condit's performance was masterful. Diaz is a fighting machine, an angry man who pursues you to the bitter end. At that end, he was still coming after Condit like it was the first round. Carlos matched Diaz's cardio and passion with his own. It was amazing to behold. But it's hard to call what Condit did "fighting."

Carlos Condit came to win an athletic contest. Nick Diaz came to fight. The difference was distinct and startling. Condit sprinted the UFC right down a slope so slippery, it might as well be made of banana peels.

The sport was built on two men coming together in the cage, head-to-head, and trying to do each other harm. Condit violated the implicit contract the UFC has with its fans. His performance looked more like a defensive boxer, the kind boxing "purists" love and fans hate. Carlos Condit was Ronald "Winky" Wright or Josh Clottey last night. And that's not a good thing.

The UFC is at an interesting place in its history. The television contract with Fox opens up the sport to all kinds of new fans. What is MMA, they might ask? If they watched last night, it's just a modern version of boxing, a game and not a fight.

Cage fighting is at its best when the action is raw, when passion merges with calculation in a beautiful symphony of violence. No one watches the UFC for sprinting, circling and avoiding the fight. You don't watch the UFC for "smart." It's a lesson the promotion may learn the hard way as a thousand Condits descend to turn something pure and amazing into just another game
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I voted no...because his gameplan...whether we like it or not...was no worse than having a pot smoking bad attitude thug that flips off his opponents and gives the sport that disrespectful feel that the UFC doesn't need.

Diaz is a great fighter no doubt, but I think his image is terrible for the sport. So to me having someone implement a game plan that nullifies his opponents strengths isn't bad for the sport.

Carlos won the fight outright, even if Diaz nut-huggers view it as "running away" ; he caused more damage in the process. Making the decision even more justifiable imo, he just got victimized by a great game plan and lost.

Condit was the far superior and dynamic fighter in the cage Saturday night; so in any other instance, if a fighter follows his opponent around cage pressuring them for most of the fight but never gets off and gets beat up in the process; they don't deserve to win the fight.

So no, Condits game plan might get criticized; but it is definitely not bad for the sport.

Imo actually yes and I am a fan of Condit as well as had money on him.

As a single instance I say definitely not it wont hurt the sport, the sport is too strong, but it could get dicey if everyone begins to implement the Greg Jackson "here is how we can win completely safe" strategy. Its clear that Jackson is a genius of a gameplanner and that Condit's plan was to do exactly what he did, but holy shit, it was frustrating. I had money on Condit and by the 3rd round I wanted to jump into the octagon and punch him.

I'm wondering if I would feel different had I been watching the fight live vs reading everything and then watching it.

Knowing the outcome going into watching the fight made me view it totally differently. I was really excited to watch Condit do what he did. He totally frustrated Diaz, I mean to watch Diaz try to corner Condit like he does best with flat feet and a stalking stance then see Condit completely evade him, pepper him with a few quick shots and bring it back to the center all the while moving back and forth so he couldn't be caught to me was pretty cool. Typically Diaz will start dropping his hands, getting mouthy with the guy and baiting him in...and it works and he knocks him out. Not this time...Condit wasn't falling for it.

I thought it was a horrible fight. Terrible.
If I would have paid money to watch that I would have been pissed.
In fact, if this is what the UFC is turning into (it's been moving in this direction for some time now), it won't be long before I am done with it.
The wife and I work 60 hours a week and we have two kids. I don't have time to watch the point games these fighters choose to play.

If it was a "run" Diaz sure as hell didn't do anything to stop Carlos from doing it; so he should sack up and take some responsibility for the loss like a man. Grab the guy, take him down maybe; I dunno, or you could just cry foul after losing a fight where the guy evades you and punches and kicks you consistently even when he moving away.

It wasn't a 3 round fight, it was 5 rounds; and Carlos did it from the 1st round, Nick never went away from his game plan and all fighters have them to a point.

The fact that both fighters have similar styles makes this a great fight, Condit knew Diaz was the far superior technical boxer; he knew he could not stand in front of him; and we seen that in this fight even for the 5 or 6 shots Diaz had him up against the cage for. Team Jackson developed a plan that could see Condit have a chance, it was executed to perfection; Diaz got beat up, Carlos attacked his legs successfully (if they were baby kicks why not check them?), and always brought the fight back to the center and force Diaz to reset.

Anybody disappointed by this fight was expecting the brawl that was promised with all the pre-fight promoting, blame UFC prime time for getting your juices flowing; cause this was a very entertaining fight if you like watching the underdog implement a solid game plan, stick to it, and deservedly win the fight over a heavy favorite.

No Robbery Here: Carlos Condit Earned Decision Win Over Nick Diaz

Feb 5, 2012 - Judging by Nick Diaz’s reaction to his unanimous decision loss to Carlos Condit at UFC 143, you’d have thought he’d just been robbed on live TV. You’d have thought he’d returned home to find that judge Cecil Peoples had made off with all his most prized possessions, from his road bike to his Tupac CDs. You definitely wouldn’t have thought that he’d merely lost a close decision in a close fight, though that’s exactly what happened.

"I don't need this [expletive]," Diaz told Joe Rogan after the decision was announced. "He ran from me this whole fight. I landed the harder shots. He kicked me in the leg with little baby kicks."

Of course, he said this while sporting a set of facial bruises and lacerations that told a very different story. You don’t get that kind of damage at a track meet. Obviously Condit must have been doing something besides running and baby-kicking. According to the FightMetric stats, that something was out-working Diaz with strikes in four of the five rounds, landing a total of 159 strikes to Diaz’s 117.

Granted, stats don’t always tell the full story with an MMA bout. Condit did spend a considerable amount of time avoiding Diaz, or at least ducking out of the way and getting the fight back to the center of the cage. If you’re of the opinion that no fighter should ever win a decision while backpedaling -- even if he’s landing more strikes in the process --- then sure, you could cry foul over the decision. Just know that you’re using your own made-up criteria to judge the fight, not the one that matters.

According to the unified rules of MMA, judges score bouts based on "effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense." Nowhere in there does it say you can’t back up or circle away. Nowhere does it say that you have to let a guy like Diaz walk you down and unload on you against the cage. Condit clearly didn’t want to get stuck with his back to the fence, where Diaz is most effective, so he continually brought the fight back to the center, where he was more effective.

In other words, Condit fought the smart fight. He also fought the slightly busier fight, at least according to the numbers. While it might have looked like Diaz was far more aggressive, if only because he walked forward in a straight line for most of the fight, Condit actually threw more strikes (329 to 258, according to Fight Metric) and landed more significant strikes (151 to 105). You can accuse him of running away if you want, but, like Diaz, you’d have to ignore the obvious evidence to the contrary, which plenty of fans are no doubt willing to do.

Maybe part of the problem here is expectations. Many people (Diaz included, perhaps) thought this was going to be a brawl. They expected to see two guys standing toe-to-toe, chopping away at each other until somebody fell. They didn’t get that fight, even though Diaz did his best to deliver it, and so they naturally blame the guy who decided to pursue a game plan rather than the guy who was unable to adjust to it.

The rest....


A great article, this sums it up for me; couldn't agree with it more.

Lamb said it perfectly above...perfectly.

And I can't fault the UFC or MMA for having a direction that leans toward opponents out pointing one another.

The talent pool is SO deep and the fighters are far more versed than they used to be. 15 years ago you could have one big strong guy throw bombs until the other guy dropped...now you simply can't do that...as the fighters evolve so do their strategies.

Diaz looks at every fight as a backyard bare knuckle brawl where they hate one another and you're trying to take each other out and gain king of the mountain Kimbo status. Condit treats it as a career, he has a wife and child to support, of course he's going to do what he can to win the fight and secure his move up the corporate ladder.

I think Diaz actions are FAR worse for the UFC than Condit's winning game plan. How does it look for the sport when a fighter in their prime with a potential title shot cries like a 3 year old and quits because he was the lesser man in the fight?

My 3 year old does that too...when he's playing a game and it doesn't go just right he says "I can't do it!" and proceeds to throw the toy..........no different than Diaz really....

Well said Lamb. Agree 100%

I thought it was a great fight. Nick was getting frustrated cuz it wasn't going his way.
Carlos exicuted his game plan perfectly. He was only getting out of the way from
Nick buldozing him over. Its been done in other fights as well, but maybe not to
the level that Carlos took it. I like how this fight turned out.

The biggest thing I don't like about the fight, is that I lost my follars on it.

I love when people tell me how I should feel...lol

You stand in front of Nick Diaz like an idiot and you lose.

Eventually this was going to happen guys.

I dont like Greg Jackson, but how is this surprising, you really thought he was going to tell Condit to go out there and just box with him

As a Condit fan, I was a little frustrated as well, but I understand why he did it, and did it well.

I give props for Condit for altering his usual in your face style and frustrating Diaz and scoring in the last 3 rounds.

Bad for the sport i dont think so, bad for Condit who will be marked I think unfairly as the guy who ran from Nick Diaz, probably.

Nick didnt change his gameplan, because he thought he was winning btw. He thought by chasing him the entire fight he was being the aggressor and those leg kicks were 95% meaningless. Obviously he was wrong, but that's why he didnt "adapt"

I dont even want to get into the who won the fight debate. The weird thing for me is if I were judging the fight at the time I think I would have given it to Condit. If I were judging it afterwards after watching it once I actually might not, which is a strange view.

But, the question was whether I thought this style of fighting was bad for the sport and I say yes if it becomes a theme. It's what got boxing into trouble as well.

hey it is definitely just my opinion, but I was a long time fan of boxing and i have been a very long time fan of mma. Just because I did not like the Condit fought does not mean I am some drunken part time fan that is only happy if he sees a brawl. I love the technical aspect of the game no matter where it is.

But, imo mma is a sport that is meant for each fighter to attempt to finish. Everything is at your disposal to do so, from gound game, to 4oz gloves, etc. If Condit had technically picked Diaz apart agressively popping in and out and just couldnt get the finish, because of Diaz's chin then ok thats great on him. But going into an mma fight with the plan being to outpoint someone is bunk imo.

Just my .02.

I am not arguing the decision.
My argument is whether or not it was an entertaining fight and good for the sport.
I am really at a crossroads in MMA right now. Too many guys "doing what they need to do to get the decision" crap.

Obviously, it's a matter of opinion, but mine is this is a game and not a fight. I don't know how you can call this Ultimate Fighting with a straight face.

Fisk brought up a great point comparing to boxing. I used to like boxing a lot until I got sick of watching decisions all the time, and guys just going on cruise control once they got up on points after a few rounds. MMA is following suit, and I don't like it.

I think the reason a lot of fans are upset is cause they were expecting a hardy/condit style fight. Just go in swing for the fences and who ever drops first loses.

Either way i dont think either guy is going to stand much of a chance against gsp.

I didn't expect a brawl... I expected a MMA fight

side not Condit did look cool running away in 3d atleast.

That makes sense to me FistK, I just don't think it is fair to say that Condits game plan was to merely out point Diaz.

The game plan was to not stand in front of him and let him impose his will on Condit (imo).
and to counter strike and throw strikes from angles upon ducking and dodging Nicks attacks;
he did that. Also Nick is flat footed in 99% of his fights in pursuit which resulted in Carlos scoring with all the leg kicks.

I like your comment and definitely see your point; I think Carlos was in there to win the fight and finish it if possible; he threw some mean shots and the kick to the head was solid, Nick is a tough SOB. Then again it makes a lot of sense for Condit not to expect to finish Diaz as he has never really been stopped from strikes other than a cut, but Condit did cause more damage in the fight undoubtedly.

If this style of fighting were to be consistent in MMA it might be bad for the sport, but I don't see that happening in the majority of fights; I think the reason it happened here is because their styles were so similar Condit had to get outside of his typical style to improve his chances of victory.

Another thing to consider, if this would have been the old 3 rounder; would everyone have the same opinion; would the evasion been as obvious; would Diaz have done enough to win the fight in 3 rounds?

I honestly thought Diaz was going to out work Condit in the later rounds and win this fight without a doubt. Condit's endurance was amazing in this fight, especially to implement this kind of fight; lots of movement.

This is definitely a hot topic though...

I think it's just as bunk to say that Condit ran. He absolutely did not run. When Diaz put him against the cage and swung he ducked and moved and counter struck.

Kaleb Starnes ran....Condit used what's called "footwork"

It's gonna take me some time, but since I can't seem to find anything, I will have to make gifs or a benny hill video for everyone.

Chrom wrote:

"I think I'm done with this MMA," Diaz said. "I don't need this s***."

The sport was built on two men coming together in the cage, head-to-head, and trying to do each other harm. Condit violated the implicit contract the UFC has with its fans. His performance looked more like a defensive boxer, the kind boxing "purists" love and fans hate. Carlos Condit was Ronald "Winky" Wright or Josh Clottey last night. And that's not a good thing.


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The sport was founded on Gracie Ju Jitsu and its poster boy Royce. At the time BJJ was grab a hold of your opponant hang on on, tie him up until a mistake was made and then submit him usually with a choke or arm bar.

The sport then morphed into a "Lay and Pray" American wrestling dominated hug fest.

A guy on the mat can't whine about a wrestler taking him down and holding him down, pointing out to a victory.

When Mat Hughes was dominant in the sport any fighter going to the mat with him would be stupid and lose accordingly, any fighter standing in front of Diaz and trading punches would be stupid and lose accordingly.

Any fan with the expectation that this sport is built on standing in front of your opponant and trading punches to the face is just downright silly. Lack of fighter longevity WOULD ruin the sport.

Gracie fought within the rules, Hughes fought within the rules, Condit fought within the rules.

Not every fight is going to be a Bonnar / Griffin slugfest.

Myself ... I enjoyed the fight and Condit's excecution of a masterful game plan against a one-dimensional thug who couldn't adapt his game at all. And when he lost due to his own inadequacy he whined about how unfair it was and said he was quiting.

What's worse for the sport? A guy who wins the fight within the rules? Or a whiney little boy biitch who wants to take his ball and go home?

If Tank came out of retirement to fight Condit and Condit played the same game as he did with Diaz; would you be singing the same tune?

No offense Chrom...I don't see your point with that statement. I don't really care who Condit fought...if he fought someone that was a striker/power bomb thrower and he took them out of their game and beat them....my tune would stay the same.

samger2 wrote:

I think it's just as bunk to say that Condit ran. He absolutely did not run. When Diaz put him against the cage and swung he ducked and moved and counter struck.

Kaleb Starnes ran....Condit used what's called "footwork"

I thought we all knew each other here well enough that we didnt have to clarify everything in the literal sense.

I didn't mean Condit put on his track shoes and ran from Diaz showing him his back ala Starnes the whole fight. I said if I judged it I would of given him the win, I would not have given Starnes the win...lol I guess I should of used the word back peddling, because imo that is what he did. Diaz was walking forward the entire fight and Condit was back peddling.

I will agree with you that Condit did show good foot work, but only when trapped. He did get off the cage very well the few times Diaz got him there, but the 95% of the rest of the fight I consider back peddling.