DREAM and Satoshi Ishii: Japanese MMA's Problem with Making the Sport a Circus (aka Fedor's next fight)

FEDOR EMELIANENKO!!!! Cool as a breeze

Fucking great KO. Ishii is pancaked.

Look at that right on the button of New Years. Fuck i would love to be at one of those NYE shows in Japan.

Great card and great KO by Fedor at the end.

Right, reading to the gym now to try sweat out some of them Stellas.

great ko

Yeh my buddy went to Dynamite 09, said it was unreal

Ahhh were you guys watching the same fight.... FEDOR LOOKED LIKE SHIT! Yup he got that KO over that can alright.... Bravo Fedor BRAVO!

Chrom wrote:

Ahhh were you guys watching the same fight.... FEDOR LOOKED LIKE SHIT! Yup he got that KO over that can alright.... Bravo Fedor BRAVO!

I wouldn't have said he looked like shit? He was more aggresive then he was against Monson but not as reckless as he was against Henderson. What was shit oher than maybe not tucking his ?

He did what he was supposed to do, KO a guy in the first round he should beat....I have no delusions about Fedor.

Hell probably never be what he was, but i will always be glad to see him win, Hes one of the guys who got me really into watching this sport back in 99-00.

Ill always love watching him fight no matter who his opponent is, I didnt think he looked bad at all. Shrugged off Ishii easily and busted his nose quickly.

Obviously Id love to see him rid himself of M-1 and fight better competition, but what can ya do.

Lining up tin cans to pad your "Legacy" only diminishes whatever reason people had to hug this guys nuts.

Fedor never would have dominated in the UFC like he did in M1 / Global land. A place with fairies, tin cans, lunks and old men that were probably drugged before they were allowed to fight him.

It infuriates me that Fedor nuthuggers can's see the simple fact that it has always been so hard for HW's in the UFC to hold onto their title because they fight the best of the best .... Fedor has been the Paper Emperor forever because he has never had to fight the best of the best. He has only fought the "Best of the Legacy Padders."

As proof I have inside secret tapes of Fedor's two next opponents....

What in the fuck did I just watch.......

Fedor's next two opponents in training.

Krieger wrote:

Lining up tin cans to pad your "Legacy" only diminishes whatever reason people had to hug this guys nuts.

Fedor never would have dominated in the UFC like he did in M1 / Global land. A place with fairies, tin cans, lunks and old men that were probably drugged before they were allowed to fight him.

It infuriates me that Fedor nuthuggers can's see the simple fact that it has always been so hard for HW's in the UFC to hold onto their title because they fight the best of the best .... Fedor has been the Paper Emperor forever because he has never had to fight the best of the best. He has only fought the "Best of the Legacy Padders."

As proof I have inside secret tapes of Fedor's two next opponents....

Bollocks mate, total bollocks.

It's hard to argue against the statement "Fedor never would have dominated in the UFC like he did in M1"
Since Fedor would do horribly in the UFC HW division.... I think we all know that now...

Krieger wrote:

Lining up tin cans to pad your "Legacy" only diminishes whatever reason people had to hug this guys nuts.

Fedor never would have dominated in the UFC like he did in M1 / Global land. A place with fairies, tin cans, lunks and old men that were probably drugged before they were allowed to fight him.

It infuriates me that Fedor nuthuggers can's see the simple fact that it has always been so hard for HW's in the UFC to hold onto their title because they fight the best of the best .... Fedor has been the Paper Emperor forever because he has never had to fight the best of the best. He has only fought the "Best of the Legacy Padders."

It's not as black and white as that, but it's not far from the truth, either.

There was time in Pride when there were some above-average HWs that Fedor was beating. I think this is where his legacy is based. However, those who proclaim him the best ever almost seem like they believe this window in Pride in which he flourished gives him a free pass to beat a bunch of nobodies and then we're all just supposed to believe that he is doing something amazing by not losing.
I understand that he had a good run in Pride and he was a great champion, but that's all it was: a good run. After that, it was just wins over has-beens and never-weres, and losses to actual legit HWs.
That doesn't = anything legendary or all-time to me.

But like I said, I don't discount the fact that he was a champion for a long time and he beat some good fighters to keep that title.

Honestly Krieger i am not even sure what point you are trying to make other than "I don't really like Fedor all that much" In which case, fine. However, saying Fedor NEVER fought the best HWs at the time? Prime Big Nog, Prime Cro Cop, Prime Randleman, Prime Mark Hunt not long after Hunt had beaten Wandy and Cro Cop. Not to mention Coleman, Semmy, Heath Herring who had not long beaten Igor and previously Enson Inoue (who beat Randy) and Mark Kerr. Also, Ex long time UFC Champs Arlovski and Tim Silvia who passed the UFC belt back and fourth between themselves for fuck knows how long. Has he fought freak matches also? Yep, of course he says. Thats JMMA for ya and thats why I loves me some Japanese MMA.

That's kind of the point I was trying to make.

Did he do some good things? Definitely. Did he do some not-so-good things. Also, definitely.


It doesn't need to be one extreme or the other.

IMO anyone who thinks he is the greatest even is incorrect, and anyone who thinks he is complete shit is incorrect as well.

The funny thing is there weren't a lot of people that were talking about Fedor crushing cans when he was dominant in PRIDE. Let's be real here, he fought bigger guys than Bigfoot, better BJJ guys than Werdum, and guys that hit harder than Hendo. He's getting older and just like Hughes, Liddell, etc he isn't going to be as dominant as he always was.

A lot of the hate is (deservedly so) because of the bullshit M-1 has done to his career. But like CF said, he's beat the best the heavyweight division had at the time. His present failures shouldn't completely erase his past accomplishments.

He will, and should, go down as the most dominant heavyweight of his time, but his time has sadly passed.

I agree, but I think where the line is in this arguement (at least from my standpoint) is exactly what his past accomplishments were. Were they weak and meaningless? I don't think so.
But were they legendary? Again, I don't think so.

he was the best HW at that time. For sure. That can't be debated. But it was still simply "at that time", which by the very nature of that saying, is an indication that "that time" doesn't compare to "this time".

He was the best when the sport was still young. Much like Royce was the best when the sport was a baby. But both fighters' time has passed with the evolution of the game..

Triggerman99 wrote:

I agree, but I think where the line is in this arguement (at least from my standpoint) is exactly what his past accomplishments were. Were they weak and meaningless? I don't think so.
But were they legendary? Again, I don't think so.

he was the best HW at that time. For sure. That can't be debated. But it was still simply "at that time", which by the very nature of that saying, is an indication that "that time" doesn't compare to "this time".

He was the best when the sport was still young. Much like Royce was the best when the sport was a baby. But both fighters' time has passed with the evolution of the game..

Yea, that's pretty much what I was alluding to. He was at the top when you had skilled guys or big guys. He was so skilled that he could take on the big guys and win. But now the big guys are skilled too and with Fedor getting older it's tough for him to keep up.

Look at Hughes. When he was crushing guys it was because his wrestling was so dominant that he didn't have to worry much about stand up. But now you have dudes like GSP who have elite level wrestling and amazing stand-up skills. The game changes all the time and there will always be a new breed of fighter that makes the old guys look...well, old.

couture fan wrote:

FEDOR EMELIANENKO!!!! Cool as a breeze

Fucking great KO. Ishii is pancaked.

"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."

Ok so its not I "just don't like Fedor"... its when posts like this are made that cry out to be balanced by the other side of the balanced universe. Fedor "The Last Emperor" punching out an obviously hand picked TIN CAN is NOT a reason for celebration it is time for us to hang our heads in shame at the obvious attempts at padding this guys legacy. This was even more true of the Monson fight or The Paper Emperor's last 15 or even 20 fights! Cmon.... Arlovski and Silvia?

If he is truly the greatest fighter of all time and wants to claim he is still a great fighter then let him fight the best of the best. But Fedor has been running from the best of the best for years.... Oh sure he'll fight em when they come out of the UFC, but never in and never when they are at their best.

Like Triggerman says, sure he was a good fighter, sure he had some good fights but "the greatest fighter of all time"? "The Last Emperor"? Naw not by a long shot.

Oleg Taktarov would have eaten Fedor alive if they had fought. Taktarov was fighting three fights a night in the tournament format, 15 to 30 minute rounds..... but people forget these fighters. The guys who paved the way... the great fighters. Coleman in his day, Randleman in his day. But sure when Fedor picks em off when they are out of the UFC and moved over to the second show... PRIDE ... then folks go "ooooooo look how wonderful Fedor is ... he's the best fighter of all time ooooo isnt he wonderful oooooo look how he beat Monson....

THEN you go "ooooooo look how the Last Emperor KO'd Ishii" .... but you forget to mention Ishii is a 25 year old Judoko specialist with 5 K1 fights under his belt and about 12 minutes of punching training. But somehow in some fuked up fashion The Paper Emperor gets to further pad his record with another KO under two minutes!

You want another Fedor freak show?...... Carwin, Dos Santos, Mir, even Lesnar or Couture (they're retired now) naw better yet Nick or Nate Diaz.... or wait how bout Jones... GSP or wait..... BJ fuking Penn? ..... Naw The Paper Emperor would lose every single freaking one of these fights..... Heh I hear George Foreman is looking for a fight

So please excuse my ill temper but when one cheers another Fedor travesty such as the Ishii fight then one must expect a response from the other side of a balanced universe.

GEORGE FOREMAN 76 AND 5

"C'MON FEDOR I'LL KICK YER ROOSKI ASS"

Not everyone who supports him is a nuthugger screaming hes the greatest ever and still is, those idiots annoy me as well but,

From 2000-2007 there wasn't a better HW than him and almost the entire MMA world and fighters all agreed so when asked who is the best fighter in MMA right now.

A fighter alot of people still love wins, people are gunna be happy about it. Its not like we were screaming OMG huge win and he should be top10 again and yelling how hed smash the entire UFC.

M-1 im sure will spew more shit and make it easier for people to bash him, but for me he won a fight and im pleased about it and thats all it is.

Krieger wrote:

couture fan wrote:

FEDOR EMELIANENKO!!!! Cool as a breeze

Fucking great KO. Ishii is pancaked.

"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."

Ok so its not I "just don't like Fedor"... its when posts like this are made that cry out to be balanced by the other side of the balanced universe. Fedor "The Last Emperor" punching out an obviously hand picked TIN CAN is NOT a reason for celebration

I think it is. Fedor winning at NYE in Japan is ROARSOME!
[/quote]
it is time for us to hang our heads in shame at the obvious attempts at padding this guys legacy. This was even more true of the Monson fight or The Paper Emperor's last 15 or even 20 fights! Cmon.... Arlovski and Silvia?[/quote]
15 or 20 fights? Cro Cop is a record padder? Nog? Come on don't be ridiculous.

[/quote]
If he is truly the greatest fighter of all time [/quote]
To be honest I never said that. I am refuting that he never fought the best at their prime because, well, he did and won.

[/quote]
Oleg Taktarov would have eaten Fedor alive if they had fought. Taktarov was fighting three fights a night in the tournament format, 15 to 30 minute rounds..... but people forget these fighters. [/quote]
The guys who paved the way... the great fighters. Coleman in his day, Randleman in his day. But sure when Fedor picks em off when they are out of the UFC and moved over to the second show... PRIDE ... then folks go "ooooooo look how wonderful Fedor is ... he's the best fighter of all time ooooo isnt he wonderful oooooo look how he beat Monson....
PRIDE had the best HW division. Much MUCH deeper than the UFC at the time. Sure, that's accepted by everyone.

[/quote]
THEN you go "ooooooo look how the Last Emperor KO'd Ishii" .... but you forget to mention Ishii is a 25 year old Judoko specialist with 5 K1 fights under his belt and about 12 minutes of punching training. But somehow in some fuked up fashion The Paper Emperor gets to further pad his record with another KO under two minutes! [/quote]
Again, watching Fedor fight=good. Watching Fedor fight and win=even better. Watching Fedor fight and win by KO=Great.Watching Fedor fight and Win by KO in Japan on NYE?...... ROARSOME!

[/quote]

In short, what I am saying is Yes he has fought ad beat the best at the time and Yes I totally enjoyed watching him win at Genki Desu Ka!

ChokingVictim wrote:

Not everyone who supports him is a nuthugger screaming hes the greatest ever and still is, those idiots annoy me as well but,

From 2000-2007 there wasn't a better HW than him and almost the entire MMA world and fighters all agreed so when asked who is the best fighter in MMA right now.

A fighter alot of people still love wins, people are gunna be happy about it. Its not like we were screaming OMG huge win and he should be top10 again and yelling how hed smash the entire UFC.

M-1 im sure will spew more shit and make it easier for people to bash him, but for me he won a fight and im pleased about it and thats all it is.

This.

I don't personally feel the way you do about Fedor, but it is important to point out- like you said- that not every Fedor supporter is a blind idiot who thinks he rules the MMA universe with an iron fist. Some people are simply fans who like to see him win.

Naw knocking the fuck out of Ishii was not just seeing your fighter win. It was a travesty... a horribly lopsided affair in which Ishii stood no chance. Hell lets line up 10 75 year old ladies for him to knock out next...

Ok let’s just take a bit of a closer look at some of the records of the fighters the Paper Emperor has padded his record with…
Martin Lazarov 0-2-0
Levon Lagvilava 1-3-0
Hiroya Takada 1-3-0
Mihail Apostolov 0-1-0
Ryushi Yanagisawa 24-25-9
Lee Hasdell 9-14-1
Yuji Nagata 0-2-0
Naoya Ogawa 7-2-0
Conceicao Martins 8-8-0
Hong Man Choi 2-3-0
Satoshi Ishii 4-2-1

These were guys that never went on to any success in MMA but they all got to go on Fedor’s PADDED record. So if you take these “exhibition matches” out of his record that brings his record down to 22-4-0. THIS is truly RIDICULOUS!

Now to be fair Randy Couture did pad his record too…
Tony Halme 0-4-0
Stephen Graham 2-1-0
Every fight after these was against guys that had an honest chance of beating Randy … to death.

GSP’s first fight was against Ivan Menjivar 23-8-0 who is currently coming off 2 ufc wins and fighting again on Feb 15. BUT GSP did pad his record with Justin Bruckmann 7-3-0 (second fight)

Andersons first 10 fights were…
2-3-0
13-6-1
15-10-0
0-1-0
9-13-1
20-10-0
0-3-0
36-12-2
14-9-0
19-11-1

BJ Penn’s only padding was…
Joey Gilbert 2-3-0

Matt Hughes padding was…
2-8-0
0-1-0
Lost his fifth fight to Superman Hallman 51-14-2
3-4-0
But really Matt’s 22 fights in the UFC ALONE were all against top contenders… That folks is a real champ…. Not the Paper Emperor.


I could go on and on and on but when you really compare The Paper Emperor’s record to any REAL champion in the UFC you have to see what crap his record is filled with. The Paper Emperor started his career with HEAVY record padding… had maybe a 10 fight run in the middle of his career and is certainly trying hard to PAD his way to the Emperorship at the twilight of his career.

I’m not a Fedor hater… I just don’t like how people portray the guy. And when challenged Fedor… “appreciators” always go to his record. Which I believe when you compare it to ANY UFC Champion falls far short of what is trying to be proven.

That's all well and good, but that huge post serves no purpose at this point of this thread.
Like some people have already said; they're just fans that enjoy seeing him win.

The road you insist on going down time and time again is a dead end because no one is even debating that with you. You're getting yourself all worked up and doing all that research for nothing.

It doesn't have to be an absolute division of people where you either think he is the greatest man to ever walk the earth or you think he is a complete fraud. There actually is a middle ground, and it's full of people who actually like watching the guy fight and like to see him win, regardless of what he's done or where he's been.