UFC fight night 36 topic

Thoughts?

I was utterly disgusted at 98% of the fights. Why does no one try to finish a fight anymore? I guess I was most disgusted at the main event. These two guys train their ASSES off for months on end, and then refuse to engage for 5 rounds. Are you that afraid of losing? Will it hurt that bad to get punched? Machida's fighting style disgusts me, I couldn't care less if I ever saw him fight again, as a matter of fact I may choose to never watch his fights again.

The only fight worth watching was those two no names where the Brazilian dude heel kicked the other dude in the face 3 times when he was going for a single leg.

Even the co-main event was a borefest. Grapple grapple grapple take down hump hump grapple decision.

Even though it was free I'm still disgusted at the lack of performance by most people on the card.

Any other hateful or loving thoughts?

First main event I have literally fallen asleep to.
UFC FN36 tied for the most decision wins in one event
UFC FN36 was 173 minutes, 32 seconds, surpassing UFC 169 for the longest event in company history.

     

Machida and whatshisname should have their asses handed to them by Dana. They should be singled out and ostricezed for wasting everyone's time on such a lack luster performance.

I thought this one was pretty bad, but I didn't think it was as bad as the last one (UFC 169).
This main event was pretty bad, but I was just actually surprised that Mousasi was able to hang with Machida at all.
I don't know, all in all I'd say it was boring, but not all time boring. Then again, I admittedly didnt see any of the prelims, because fuck Fight Pass, and they may have been really terrible.

I'm not suprised Mousasi was able to hang with him...because Machida didn't do anything. Anytime he'd string together a combination he'd back off. He come in and throw like 3 punches and then jump back.

I'm not really sure why I'm so angered by this fight. But something about it pisses me off. I think it's all this talk about boring fights, and decision after decision and Dana gets embarrased about the last showing with all the decisions...and then we have this. A main event where a fighter feels he should be in contention to challenge for the belt, and he refuses to even begin to attempt to close the fight. There are so many hungry aggressive talented fighters out there that would love the opportunity to show how hungry they are and you have Machida coming in making a boring chess match out of it just to get the "W".

I hate that "playing it safe" or "playing it smart" is just "refusing to engage".

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me stock. Are you disagreeing with the fact that Machida was refusing to engage or do you agree with me that he actually was not engaging?

only the first round was boring because none would engage but after that machida did land quite a few nice shots. he was actually more aggressive than in several of his recent fights. it was not boring at all, the whole 2-3 punch combo and then back out strategy is central in shotokan karate because avoding getting hit is almost as important as hitting. yes, it could hurt a lot getting punched, samger, mousse sauce is not a slouch. the problem with this fight is that both are careful fighters, but machida at least was solving gayguards defense.
on another note, machida looks weird at this weight. his lack of body fat looked a bit scary and unhealthy.
the rest of the fights were boring. jacare was super boring and he is never boring.

Yeah I tend to agree with stock and Commie; I don't think it's fair to say that Machida and Mousasi didn't engage or show any offense.
It was a very technical fight where both fighters were very wary of each other, but I did see a fair amount of offense. I'm probably in the minority in that I actually enjoy watching Machida fight more often than not. He keeps picking and picking and picking at opponents until they get frustrated and make a mistake and then BANG! He goes for the kill. I mean, he actually has a lot of finishes. We're not talking about GSP or Fitch here. The problem Machida's style presents is when opponents don't take a chance against him because they know he can turn it around on them and make them pay.
What I saw in this particular fight was Machida doing what he usually does, Mousasi trying to counter like Machida usually likes his opponents to do, but Mousasi actually being quick enough to get out of Machida's traps. The end result was a lot of good exchanges almost (but not quite) happening, with Machida picking away and trying to setup an opportunity and Mousasi staying just out of dangerous territory.

I can't agree or disagree with any of you, because like I said... I fell asleep late second round.

Trigger, I don't think you agree with me.
I thought the fight sucked. Both fighters played it safe (meaning they refused to engage), thus a shitty fight. However the "purists" will come out and talk about how it was a cleverly strategic win.
Fuck that. A real fight is not won until someone is put away or gives up. Or, at the very least looks like they went through a fucking war (ie.. GSP after his last fight).

Well I guess both Sam and I didn't know what the hell you were talking about. lol

Look, you'll never mistake me for an MMA Purist, but like I said before; Machida fights smart AND finishes people. He didn't finish Mousasi, but that's because Mousasi was wiling and able to stay out of danger. When you look at any Machida fight, he's willing to pick away at his opponent and frustrate them if that's all their willing to give him. But when you look at his fights with Munoz, Rashad, Couture, etc., those fighters threw caution to the wind and came right at him, and paid for it.
I liken it a lot to Anderson Silva's style, but much more patient.
It's nothing like GSP or Fitch for example because those guys fight to a decision every time no matter what the other guy's gameplan is.

I guess you could say "Well if he has the ability to finish the fight, then he should just do it and stop playing it safe", but then his style probably wouldn't work, because he'd be lacking the setup.

I don't know, I suppose I could see the frustration if Machida never finished a fight and just cruised to UDs no matter what the opponent gave him ala Oatmeal St. Pierre, but he clearly doesn't.

Out of everything said above, I think Trigger said the most true and important thing "The end result was a lot of good exchanges almost (but not quite) happening"

...IMO "almost (but not quite) happening" makes for one boring ass fight where neither guy did much other than try not to lose. Machida just "tried not to lose" better.

Right, but if Mousasi really tried to bring the fight to Machida, we likely would have seen a much different outcome. All I'm trying to say is that it's not always Machida's fault.
You can look at it two ways;
1) It's Machida's fault for having a good gameplan and making his opponent play his game.
2) It's his opponents fault for not trying to override that gameplan, and thereby losing a boring decision.
Either way, Machida is probably going to win, but it's up to his opponent whether we're going to see a weak ass decision or an exciting finish.

I can definitely see and agree with that. The only reason I'm singling out Machida more in this scenario is he's the more seasoned, more well known fighter. I didn't even know who Mousasi was before this fight, so honestly I couldn't care less how he performed. Machida on the other hand is a previous belt holder, I expect more from him...especially someone looking to attempt to get the belt back.

A coworker and I were talking yesterday about the fight and we both agreed...as ridiculous as this may sound, we almost wish the talent wasn't so good in the UFC. The level of skill these guys have to keep themselves from getting involved in a "fight" and still coming out the victor is just amazing. I miss the days when we'd have two guys that just wanted to go at it and put on a good show for the fans. I'm the baddest emmereffer on the planet and this is why...and no it's not my dancing and evasion skills that's gonna do it. Let's be honest, if the main event from Saturday were the caliber of fights back in 1994 would we all be having this conversation right now? No...because the UFC would've never taken off...it'd just be small grappling tournaments that true MMA fans watched on youtube or downloaded from some purist MMA site.

Whether he's dripping wet with skill...fighters like Machida and fights like his are the reason I won't pay for events any longer...nor will I watch one live...I always will DVR so I can keep from falling asleep.

well, here comes the "purist" crap. machida did not avoid anything, he went after the win with the best of his ability. his ability lies in faints and set ups. thats what his life long training has taught him and to do otherwise would be illogical for him. if his opponent is also of the kind that picks his opponent apart, we've got a "boring" fight...if a brawl is the only thing you are able to appreciate.
yes a fight is when a fighter makes the other give up but if he doesnt follow your game plan, rushing in and "going to war" is another term for playing russian roulette.
i will never understand anyone expecting fighters to go for broke for our entertainment or getting upset if they do not. it is a very dangerous thing they do, thats why they call it a fight.

im expecting a pic from trigg on this one

No, in this case, I agree with you, so I won't go all anti-purist on you.
My feeling is that Machida is one of purest, most exceptional mixed martial artists in the game. He employs his gameplan and takes what his opponent gives him. If they are reckless enough to try and brawl with him, he puts them away. If they aren't reckless, he chips away at them and makes them look stupid on the way to a UD that could be viewed as boring. But it's only boring because his opponent won't go after him full force (because if they did, they would and have gotten lit up like a Christmas tree).
He embodies the pure Mixed Martisl Artist, and I appreciate the way he employs his gameplan, as opposed to GSP, who is the polar opposite with his constant gameplan of taking the fight out of the fight no matter what his brings to hIm.

I guess I'm just gonna be the blockhead guy that wants a brawl. Do I appreciate his level of skill and talent? Sure! Do I enjoy it? HELL NO. Plain and simple Machida's fighting style is flat out boring and void of any excitement. As I stated before fighters like him...talented or not...are the reason I won't pay for events anymore.

I guess the way I always tend to think of it is if I were showing MMA or the UFC to someone for the first time would I show them this fight? No, of course not, because whether you're a purist or not, it was boring. I'll argue this statement all day long that nothing of significance happened in 5 rounds. Yes Machida showed his MMA talent by doing what he does. And Mousasi refused to play into his game so he showed that he had his MMA thinking cap on...but damn it was a boring fight. When I sit down to watch a fight, I want those times where I jump out of my seat and yell at the TV. I literally fell asleep in this fight. Again...if this were the caliber of fights from 20 years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion because the UFC would never have taken off...we'd still have to be renting the DVDs from blockbuster to see anything because it'd still be an underground "grappling" sport. This is why the Forest fight put the UFC on the map...this is why the Hunt/Bigfoot fight was labeled by some the best fight in UFC history, this is why Shogun/Hendo was one of the greatest fights I've ever seen.

Machida is a smart/intelligent/highly skilled yet VERY boring fighter.

Some fun past quotes pertaining to Machida...

Krieger wrote:

UFC is quickly becoming a non-contact sport

Chrom wrote:

Ok so what happens when some one chooses not to play "The Machida Game" ?


Answer, NOTHING! Nothing at all will happen. ...

Is this really what we want MMA to be?
I say no... not at all.

Triggerman99 wrote:

Regardless of who won, it sounds like I made the right choice in not purchasing this.

FistK wrote:

Go out and try to win and this wont happen.
And if he is gonna be a boring round stealer then his camp should at least teach him how to do it better

stock wrote:

Yeah, screw both those guys for trying to win a silly little point game.

Gecko wrote:

Machida did what he does best. ... Was it the most exciting thing? of course not

Krieger wrote:

Heh... one more thing

Machida's reduced engagement was a plan.

stock wrote:

This is the key point here.
Aside from the Machida fight, you have two guys "fighting" each other with the same safe (solid) game plan to throw counters and never move forward.
Well, someone has to throw the first punch right? Someone has to come forward eventually, right? Now suddenly, the aggressor (or in my words, the person choosing to fight) just plays into (in Trigger/Krieger's words) the other fighter's perfect game plan.

Just saying, I don't want MMA to become this.

Over all this entire card is a lot like a Ben Askrin fight. At times you think some thing very exciting is gonna happen and then just when you think it's going to get good the blanket effect comes out and leaves you with less than an exciting feeling to the point you feel let down about the whole fight.

I do agree there are some very iconic fights that went the distance and that's great but most of the time that's not the way it turns out. I can think about maybe 8 fights in 2013 that went the distance and was also entertaining through and through. while you have almost half (or in some cases more than half) of the fights on a single card that go the distance and are some of the most unmemorable fights you will see.

just to clarify too I am not comparing a stand up fight to a ground fight cause I have seen great fights in both areas and horrible fights in both areas. Its more about the fighters themselves that will only do enough to win a fight instead going out there and making a statement that you are the man and have a right to ask for a title shot. I definitely thought there were several times Machida could have put Mousasi away but decided to back pedal and play it safe. To me that's not some one who is looking to make waves to get looked at for a title shot, it felt more like some one just trying to keep the wins coming. Why do you think yushin was delayed so long to get a shot a silva? cause he only did what he had to do to win instead of going out there and making a statement.

It is true that when a Machida fight is boring, it can end up being really boring, but it's not accurate to pretend like every singe time he fights, this is what we end up with.

In actuality, Machida has a finishing rate of 46% in fights that he has won in the UFC, which is fairly comparable to a lot of fighters who are known as guys who "go for the kill and always look to finish the fight". Just to pull a few examples from the MW and LHW divisions, Machida has about the same rate as Shogun (50% finishing rate of wins in the UFC) and Rashad (47%), while considerably higher than that human wrecking machine Dan Henderson (25%).

WAIT WAIT WAIT! You can't just pick and choose portions of a fighters career and compare it to Machida's as a whole.

Shogun's finishing rate for his career: 91%
Machida's finishing rate for his career: 48%

I used only UFC fights for all those guys, including Machida. His finishing rate in UFC fights is 46%, and Shogun's is 50%. I didn't pick and choose anything.
I only did it that way because using their entire careers in every organization opens up the door to counting crushing cans in smaller orgs as "legit" finishes. Not many people saw Machida fight anywhere but the UFC, and it's clearly his UFC career that is being judged here. So in the interest of uniformity, I only used finishes in the UFC.

BOOOOOO!!!!