Ken Shamrock says Lesnar Should have been the best MMA fighter ever

Quote :

"I think Brock mentally got beat, but I always thought that they didn't treat Brock right either. I thought they threw him in too soon. He's fighting guys that had 20 fights in his second fight because he's so massive and so impressive. It wasn't fair to him. If he would have got groomed properly, he could've been the best fight in any weight class, best pound-for-pound ever, if he was groomed properly. I'm not sure that [the diverticulitis] is everything. I know that's a big part of it, but what if he was training properly? Would that have even been a factor? I don't even know. I'm just saying, this guy had an opportunity to be great, and I just saw him mentally get dwindled down because he was thrown right into that. With guys that had a lot more fights than him, a lot more technical than him. Imagine what you could have done with this guy if you had groomed him properly?"

Yeah.... probably didn't help that a guy with very little experience getting punched is getting smashed by people that hit as hard as Carwin and Velasquez. I think it's a little easier to warm up to getting punched when it's not those guys.

Well, Ken Shamrock is the same guy who said "I will beat you into living death" and “I’m gonna show Tito who Ken Shamrock is, was, and is now", so I can't really take anything he says all that seriously. LOL

But in all seriousness, yeah; We all know that Brock got thrown into the deep end right off the bat, but I don't think it's fair to say he would have that much better if he were groomed a little more. He would have been better for sure; There's no way to really say otherwise. But best MMA fighter ever? That's saying a lot. I don't think that's a legit claim to make.

I agree with Triggerman. Also, I think Brock's ego coupled with his WWE personality would have kept him from really getting well rounded anyway.

Also, Ken Shamrock is such a douche.

I actually think he was physically capable of being an all-time great fighter.

His strength was immense, his wrestling background was second to none, he hit hard, and his work ethic was off the charts.

Unfortunately for him in my opinion he just wasn't a fighter. Some guys are and some aren't. You need a certain mentality to go into the ring. You need to love the violence. I watch TUF and whenever the coaches ask who wants to fight next 90% of them shoot their arms in the air and im always thinking I would never do that, haha. Then you have these fuckers punching each other in the bathroom just to see if they can take it, etc. Its a different mindset and Brock didnt have it. He has all of the physical attributes, but when someone started hitting him, he didnt want to be in the cage anymore. Other guys love it.

I agree to some point. However, he took some heavy punches from couture and some even heavier punches and elbows from Shane Carwin, and he had no problem getting the win. I think he could have gotten more accustomed to that with time had he started earlier, didn't have health issues, and didn't have shit loads of WWE money.

A lot of "buts", but.....

I don't know that he could've been the best EVER...but quite frankly this is probably the most intelligent statement I've ever heard come out of Shammy's mouth....

Agree with Fist, as usual. He had everything but the thirst for violence, regardless of what he says. Yeah he's a huge guy that loves to beat up people, but so is everyone else. Difference is that they might have the warrior gene, he doesn't. Some people are wired for it, some can overcome the fact that they aren't for a long time with physical attributes like Lesnar and Cro Cop did. But when the cage door closes and the chips are down, the line between them becomes clear. Brock Lesnar, Mike Tyson. 2 huge scary freaks, one major difference that is all too obvious.

One likes to chew on ears?

stock wrote:

I agree to some point. However, he took some heavy punches from couture and some even heavier punches and elbows from Shane Carwin, and he had no problem getting the win. I think he could have gotten more accustomed to that with time had he started earlier, didn't have health issues, and didn't have shit loads of WWE money.

A lot of "buts", but.....

I don't think the point is that he can't find a way to win after he gets hit hard. It's that he just doesn't embrace it and roll with it like "real" fighters do. Sure, he has taken some shots, but the idea seems to be that deep down, he doesn't deal with it as well as other fighters. He was able to win those big fights, but that was likely attributed more to his physicality than to his ingrained warrior-fighter-kill-or-be-killed gene.

DEP wrote:

Agree with Fist, as usual. He had everything but the thirst for violence, regardless of what he says. Yeah he's a huge guy that loves to beat up people, but so is everyone else. Difference is that they might have the warrior gene, he doesn't. Some people are wired for it, some can overcome the fact that they aren't for a long time with physical attributes like Lesnar and Cro Cop did. But when the cage door closes and the chips are down, the line between them becomes clear. Brock Lesnar, Mike Tyson. 2 huge scary freaks, one major difference that is all too obvious.

Crocop is another perfect example. He was able to get by for a long time, because the ring was perfectly suited for what he did well. Circling opponents, cutting off angles and engaging whenever he wanted to engage. When he got into the octagon and actually had to fight he hated it.

Triggerman99 wrote:

stock wrote:

I agree to some point. However, he took some heavy punches from couture and some even heavier punches and elbows from Shane Carwin, and he had no problem getting the win. I think he could have gotten more accustomed to that with time had he started earlier, didn't have health issues, and didn't have shit loads of WWE money.

A lot of "buts", but.....

I don't think the point is that he can't find a way to win after he gets hit hard. It's that he just doesn't embrace it and roll with it like "real" fighters do. Sure, he has taken some shots, but the idea seems to be that deep down, he doesn't deal with it as well as other fighters. He was able to win those big fights, but that was likely attributed more to his physicality than to his ingrained warrior-fighter-kill-or-be-killed gene.

Yeah totally agree with this.

And to take it one step further I would hardly call what he did against Carwin showing a warrior spirit...lol

He got hit, literally curled up in a shell and got saved by the bell. If Carwin's body was not completely shutdown going into the second round I am quite certain it would of been more of the same.

Absolutely.
That was more a demonstration of how much more athletic and physically gifted he was than Carwin than it was a demonstration of being comfortable taking punches.

Who's Brock Lesnar?

it is not about the "warrior spirit". i get a little annoyed when the fighters and some fans proclaim warrior status.
yes, there is an overlap in the pie charts of fighters and warriors but it is not as wide as people think. the never give up attitude that some fighters have is probably mostly a result of experience, training, aggression and it is always in a cage. "warrior spirit" as i see it is the will to risk it all, over and over again no matter the odds. in real life.
but whatever, semantics.
in lesnars case, i think punches just confused him. its not like he was afraid to get hit, he just didnt know what to do when he did. it threw his game plan off. he was always a dominate figure in life and probably never got his ass kicked, so he didnt know how to cope with the change.