UFC 158: Who do you want to win vs Who do you think will win

indeed....i have to imagine as somewhat of an athleat myself....winter xtream sports mostly used to be pretty good rock climber in my younger years....anyhow with those sports to get better and keep it fun you are always trying new things.......if i was not afraid to snowboard but afraid to crash i dont think id ever learned to hit jumps, drop cliffs, do spins, grabs and hall ass in the trees....point i think we are both making is gsp is stale...doesnt try anything new or exciting when he is more than capable of it and it almost seems like he is done progressing....you often hear rogan say how much better a fighter looks this time out or how improved a fighter is...gsp hasnt "improved" in quite some time, not since learning wresteling with the canadian olympic team has he brought anything new to the table.....

shame on you gsp shame!

The sad thing is I'm sure he has learned BUCKETS of new tactics and he probably uses them daily in training...but never affords himself the opportunity to use them in a fight.

Krieger, you mentioned that "the roar of the crowd" showed how much they loved it. I tend to disagree there. I think that has alot to do with the fact that they're at a live sporting event. I really can't stand american football...it's boring too me...and quite frankly stupid. But I've been to one or two pro football games and you better believe that the atmosphere and the 24oz beers I was drinking had me jumping out of my seat screaming and yelling. I really didn't care who was doing what...if someone ran 7 years without being tackled right away it was the greatest play on earth.

So maybe if I was at the event I would've been screaming because I was at a live production and 24oz beers were telling me to do so...but sitting in the comforts of my home, watching the fight for what it truly was had me literally nodding off waiting for the final bell.

^^^
On top of that, it was GSP in there. He's like a national hero in Canada. He could be in there by himself knitting a sweater and the crowd would be going ape shit.
They were just happy to be able to see GSP, whether it was a great fight or a boring fight.

Triggerman99 wrote:

^^^
He could be in there by himself knitting a sweater and the crowd would be going ape shit.

haha...exactly...I totally forget where they were.

"I am not imprezzzed by your peerfoormanze Nick Deeazz...I will nit a zweater inztead...merci beaucoup"

Ugggg....I have a pet peeve of poor grammar and misspelling...sorry I meant to say Knit...not nit...and then above, I meant to say ran seven YARDS not years...oh and I used to in place of too or vice versa...anyway...ocd much??

But side topic, when I was in Canada a month ago, every dude that spoke to me I couldn't help but IMMEDIATELY think of and picture GSP.

And going back to what you were saying about GSP being a national hero...I was talking to our bartender at the hotel and I asked him if he was into MMA...he said no, I asked "certainly you know George St. Pierre?"...he perked up right away and said yes and started talking a little about him...so yeah...he is very well loved up there.

I didn't think the fight was that bad, not great ,but I wasn't really expecting great. Diaz kept it interesting by scrambling and actually started to get the better of GSP on the feet near the end.

I'd say he should of focused more on Clinch N Pound ,but then again that would make it easier for GSP to take him down.

Hendricks really fucking impressed me though.

Haters gotta hate... simple. Never any mention of Diaz's TWO strikes from the ground AFTER the bell resulting in a disqualification warning.... just somehow GSP failed to measure up... somehow.

But when the haters try to rip apart REPEATEDLY significant and hard fought victories by a champ it gets old real quick and it goes on and on. Its like the nuthuggers invent a different standard of victory than the scorecards.

"Well GSP beat Nick .... but did he REALLY beat him ... Really?

NICK PRESENTED NO THREAT TO GSP he lost a unanimous decision to the champ, who by the way is still one of the top ppv draws in the organization.

But the numbers don't lie... Fight Metrics

Head power shots 34/67.................6/43
Head jabs 104/138............. 7/80
Body power 20/22.................18/26
Body jabs 38/41.................15/18
Kicks 14/17.................4/9
TakeDowns 9/16...................0/0

Even Nick had more class when he raised GSPs hand in the ring BEFORE announcement.

Who's "hating" on GSP? Where did you get that from? Probably the worst thing said about him on here was that he doesn't go for the finish often enough. If that's "hating", then there isn't even a word in the English language to explain the BS you were saying about Diaz.

No, nobody is hating on GSP, just calling you out for blindly hating on Diaz.

I don't hate on Nick I hate on the shit he does constantly, the disrespect he brings to his opponents the disrespect he brings to the sport and the disrespect he brings to his fans.

Blindly ignoring the facts in my posts is ok?

Hard to argue against Fight Metrics.

If "calling me out as a blind hater" makes it easier to ignore the facts ... go ahead.

If labeling my comments as BS makes it easier to ignore the facts ... go ahead.

Funny how that works isn't it .... ignore the facts and attack me.

GSP haters do the same thing over and over. Diminish his efforts as substandard without giving the credit where due. It happens all the time. Yeah to me that's what haters do.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think anyone was saying Nick won that fight, yet you keep posting stats trying to sell us on his victory. In fact, I don't think anyone has even said Nick won a single round. I also don't think anyone is arguing that he is one of the (minimum) top 3 P4P fighters in the world.

What gets people annoyed with GSP is that you just know he's not going to finish a guy before the fight even starts.
Pre-fight, GSP was a -450 favorite. It was -350 for him to go all 5 rounds and win by decision.
That's just what GSP does. He goes out there and plays a silly little game of outpointing his opponents on the judges cards and doesn't bother putting himself out there to put a fight away.

Krieger wrote:

I don't hate on Nick I hate on the shit he does constantly, the disrespect he brings to his opponents the disrespect he brings to the sport and the disrespect he brings to his fans.

Blindly ignoring the facts in my posts is ok?

Hard to argue against Fight Metrics.

If "calling me out as a blind hater" makes it easier to ignore the facts ... go ahead.

If labeling my comments as BS makes it easier to ignore the facts ... go ahead.

Funny how that works isn't it .... ignore the facts and attack me.

GSP haters do the same thing over and over. Diminish his efforts as substandard without giving the credit where due. It happens all the time. Yeah to me that's what haters do.

Yeah, like stock said; I don't think you even know what you are arguing about. I certainly don't know what you are arguing about.
You're getting pissed because I am ignoring your facts or whatever, but neither me or anybody else is disputing anything you're going on and on about. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make or who you're trying to make it to.

Yeah keep going at me Trigg, don't let Krieger argue for some respect for GSP just keep coming at me.

"Silly little game of outpointing his opponents."

It's funny how Diaz can do all of the shit he does and you get to defend him and I never attack YOU ... but me defending GSP against shit lines like that and you get to tell me my opinions are BS and that I'm a "BLIND HATER"

My bottom line is posters who don't like GSP go on to ... "Diminish GSP's efforts as substandard without giving the credit where due." Thats what all this stuff is about for me ... diminishing GSP's efforts and then not expecting some backlash.

I think GSP is the P4P Best right now. But I do agree that he has became "stale" in way. He does play it safe, he does put on grinding decision fights and I agree he hasn't changed much or progressed much since upping his wrestling.... But he hasn't had to. I see the point of him not being unlike Fitch. I would also say Ben Askren is very much like GSP. I mean Askren will flat out say "I'm taking you down and grinding you out! Stop me!" No one can. I can't fault any of them for using a winning style. But I can definitely, as a spectator, complain about the entertainment value of said style.

Looking for a little GSP respect....

From other forums
From Chuck Norris xx

People always put it on GSP because he wins on decisions. The reality is that he usually ends up dominating opponents at their own game - Diaz in boxing, Koscheck in wrestling/striking, Penn in everything. Here's some questions that should be asked of a GSP opponent: Why couldn't Nick Diaz outbox GSP? Why wasn't Nick Diaz able to get up from under GSP? Where was Nick Diaz's amazing ground game that everyone talks about? Why did Nick Diaz get beat by a "girl"? Diaz even said he got tired at some point. Why didn't Diaz out-condition GSP like he was able to do against any one else?

It's like the argument against Muhummad Ali. He is considered the greatest but never because he was known as a hard hitter. He had those snappy jabs that didn't hurt but they annoyed and threw off the timing of his opponent to the point where his opponent was frozen worried about getting tagged every time he advanced. People could not do against Ali what they could do against every one else. It would take 6 or 7 rounds before Ali could pick apart his opponent at will.

GSP historically gives people their worst beatings, even if he can't knock them out. Ask Koscheck about his eye. Ask BJ Penn about his trip to the hospital after his fight with GSP.

GSP isn't my favorite fighter but I recognize his style is to tag, throw off the timing, and control where the fight goes. He is constantly working and punishing, if not finishing. He ultimately embarrasses his opponent but never unleashes a knock out flurry. He doesn't have the power to finish and I don't care. It's enough to watch a great athlete constantly come up with a strategy to neutralize a seemingly unbeatable opponent.

From Blark

GSP's legacy will be viewed much more favorably once he retires I think.

MMA fans are typically fickle and we have short memory spans, so I feel like once some time has passed and we look at how he handled his career with his level of competition compared to others in the same weight class it will be a completely different story.

From DeathByBeer

Think its more a combination of the two opinions.

GSP does fight in a no risk manner.

But he also absolutely dominates other fighters on the ground causing their gamplans and strengths to be thrown in the garbage.

When they realize they have no answer on the ground and any attempt by them to change that ends in receiving brutal GnP, they shut down and go full defence.

The ensuing stalemates now automatically get blamed on the top fighter.

From Ayilo
Because they have nothing to lose and all to gain .
GSP has nothing to gain and all to lose when he fight .


GSP with the Belt = he will fight to keep the belt .
GSP without the Belt = he will fight to get back his belt .

The belt is more important to him than pleasing fans with KO or SUb (even tho he's trying harder lately to be more "entertaining" )

Chrom wrote:

I think GSP is the P4P Best right now. But I do agree that he has became "stale" in way. He does play it safe, he does put on grinding decision fights and I agree he hasn't changed much or progressed much since upping his wrestling.... But he hasn't had to. I see the point of him not being unlike Fitch. I would also say Ben Askren is very much like GSP. I mean Askren will flat out say "I'm taking you down and grinding you out! Stop me!" No one can. I can't fault any of them for using a winning style. But I can definitely, as a spectator, complain about the entertainment value of said style.

Perfect opinion and valid... thanks for that

im the one who used the term hater...and to me some of the comments made seem clearly biased and not objective but argumenative......that being said...i was a gsp fan for years, when he used to finish his fights....and i can be a fan again if he ever gets that flame back under him...the killer instinct....not the safe route...and thats all my point was is that he is a sfae fighter and afraid to take a chance or really put it all on the line.....if gsp loses again i feel like it would revitalize his career.....he maybe would feel the urgency to finish rathert than coast to the finish line......

and as far as saying he nutralized diaz ground game....maybe but if your going to take that stance then its also safe to say that diaz negated gsps amazing top game and took little to no damage......post fight pics are pretty good evidance as to who took the most damage and if gsp was such a dominant champ...why couldnt he finish or hurt nick anywhere...ground, feet....never was nick in any danger of the fight being stopped.......so realalisticly couldnt that be looked at as a draw by your logic for praising the mediocrity of gsp performance???

I love GSP...all credit to the man. But plain and simple he's boring. As norcalmatt says...and I think this sums it up perfectly..."i can be a fan again if he ever gets that flame back udner him...the killer instinct....not the safe route...and thats all my point was is that he is a sfae fighter and afraid to take a chance or really put it all on the line.....if gsp loses again i feel like it would revitalize his career....."

The only times in recent history I've seen GSP fight with a fury was when he lost to Serra and had to show himself...and when he came back off his long layoff and had to show everyone that Condit wasn't going to stand in his way as the TRUE champion.

By no means am I hating on GSP...I said it before and I'll say it again, it's a toss up to me between who is the greatest UFC champion of all time, GSP or Silva...he is a fantastic fighter, awesome at everything he does. I just wish he'd do it more often.

Why is it that GSP's camp finds it necessary to mention he had a fever before the fight? I suppose it's because even they saw that it was a lack luster title defense?

http://www.mmastandard.net/t2131-gsp-was-sick-and-uneasy-prior-to-his-ufc-158-title-defense#18062

or when he's apologized for not going for the finish and not being happy with his performance even though he dominated a fighter.

Again, my point isn't to bash GSP...he's awesome...but my point is to say it's not crazy that most of us are saying he takes the easy road and doesn't put himself in danger of losing.

good lord im a mess before ive had my coffee....and i need windows to have a spellcheck for my dislexic ass!!!!....my posts must kill you to read sam with all my spelling and grammer errors

Krieger wrote:

Yeah keep going at me Trigg, don't let Krieger argue for some respect for GSP just keep coming at me.

"Silly little game of outpointing his opponents."

It's funny how Diaz can do all of the shit he does and you get to defend him and I never attack YOU ... but me defending GSP against shit lines like that and you get to tell me my opinions are BS and that I'm a "BLIND HATER"

My bottom line is posters who don't like GSP go on to ... "Diminish GSP's efforts as substandard without giving the credit where due." Thats what all this stuff is about for me ... diminishing GSP's efforts and then not expecting some backlash.

OK, I really want be done with this ridiculous conversation, but I can't let you get away with that one.

You want to talk about respect? Let's do that.
We were on here having a legitimate conversation about how the fight went and what we would have liked to have seen differently. Nothing outlandishly disrespectful or insulting to either fighter, just a nice calm discussion, and then you show up with this:

Quote :

Meh ... I saw GSP totally dominate NICK DIAZ for Christ's sake... a guy who has a legit chance of KTFO anyone in the WW division. He won every round decisively, beat Nick silly, out boxed the "best boxer in the ufc", was NEVER threatened on the ground, negated the vaunted Diaz Gracie ground game, he took some hard legitimate shots and kept moving forward.

I can understand the whole hate thing... but this smells to me just like the Anderson / Sonnen thing ... "Sonnen won MOST of the rounds." heh heh

So you basicly show up and and try to get things heated up by throwing out these little confrontational barbs, and then what? You get defensive when you get the fight you were clearly asking for?!
I'm not gonna tell you how to act or what to say, but you clearly were fishing for a heated debate. That's your thing. That's what you do. I'm fine with that, but don't act like I'm the asshole for responding to it.

And as far as me defending "all of the shit that Diaz does", I don't. Read my posts on Diaz. I rarely (if ever) defend him as person. I'm a realistic enough person to know when he's wrong, and I accept it and let him get torn to shreds for it. That doesn't mean I'm not going to still be fan, but you gotta take the good with the bad sometimes. I take a lot of pride in being objective when it comes to what my favorite fighters are as human beings, so I'm sorry, but you're wrong about never "attacking me" about Diaz. You don't because I never give you a reason to.

Meh whatever ... some people viewed the fight differently than lay and prey and actually enjoyed the result. But I just gotta either stfu or agree with you or Trigg keeps coming at me. "Krieger blindly hates on Diaz"

Not objective Trigg .. not objective.

Don't get all butt hurt about it.
If you want to be Confrontational Krieger, then by all means do it, but own it. Don't act like a victim when I come back at you.

If it was just me chasing you around and trying to pick an arguement with you, then you would have a valid point about me "coming at you", but look around; you've been wearing your dick hat pretty prominently around here lately, and it hasn't exactly gone unnoticed.


OK, that's enough out of me. I'll leave it alone now.

You go all on about being the objective defender of those who dare to be confrontational accuse me of this accuse me of that but the bottom line is I have an opinion that doesn't conform to yours and thats what this is about.

I disagree with the portrait being painted of GSP and his victory and you come at me calling me ridiculous, butthurt, wearing a dick hat, completely wrong and a blind hater.... yeah Triggerman99 completely objective and level headed. Funny how its ok for you to attack someone directly.

What have I called you? Or your opinion? Hmmmm lemme see.....